The liberal democracies of Europe made similar agreements with Hitler before the USSR, and shot down Stalin's suggestions of an anti-fascist alliance. Furthermore, US industrialists were directly inspired by Fascist Germany and Italy to carry out the failed Business Plot against FDR. The USA also paid reparations to German industrialists for their destroyed property after the war was over (Yes, even German industrialists who used Holocaust slave labor, like Krupp).

1933 - UK, France, Italy - The four powers pact

1934 - Poland - Hitler-Pilsudski Pact

1935 - UK - Anglo-German Naval agreement

1936 - Japan - Anti-Comintern pact

1938 - September - UK - German-British Non Aggression Pact (Munich Agreement )

1938 - December - France - German-French Non Aggression Pact

1939 - March - Romania - German Romanian Economical Treaty

1939 - March - Lithuania - Non aggression ultimatum

1939 - May - Italy - Pact of Steel (Friendship and Alliance)

1939 - May - Denmark - Non aggression pact

1939 - June - Estonia - non aggression pact

1939 - July - Latvia - non aggression pact

1939 - August - USSR - Molotov-Ribbentrop Non Aggression pact - the only ones libs care about

Stalin with regards to this said:

"Indeed, it would be ridiculous and stupid to close our eyes to the capitalist encirclement and think that our external enemies, the fascists, for example, will not, if the opportunity arises, make an attempt at an attack upon the USSR. Only blind braggarts or masked enemies who desire to lull the vigilance of our people can think like that."

Even the US state department confirmed Stalin's rationale for a pact with Hitler

"The Soviets signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with Nazi Germany after the British and French rejected Soviet offers to establish a military alliance against Germany"

CIA declassifies its dealings with ex nazis

Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'

How the Allied multinationals supplied Nazi Germany throughout World War II

  • a_fanonist_hexagon [he/him]
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    Don't forget Munich where a bunch of western powers not including Czechoslovakia agreed to give the Sudetenland to Germany despite having alliances with them.

    • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]
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      Munich Agreement is on here as "1938 - September - UK - German-British Non Aggression Pact"

      I'll parenthesize it.

      • a_fanonist_hexagon [he/him]
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        Ah, I noticed the date matched but it didn't mention the Italians (who were also party to the deal) and the French (who were party to the deal despite having a military alliance with the country they were sacrificing to the Nazis) and idk the official name of the treaty

  • justjoshint [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    thanks for this, do you have any deets or any suggestion of where to look about stalins attempts to form an anti-fascist alliance? i've seen that talked about a lot here and elsewhere but i don't know much about it.

    • emizeko [they/them]
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      Telegraph article with details of the declassified papers

      Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'

      Stalin was 'prepared to move more than a million Soviet troops to the German border to deter Hitler's aggression just before the Second World War'

      By Nick Holdsworth in Moscow 5:16PM BST 18 Oct 2008

      Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the Soviet Union proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance.

      Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history, preventing Hitler's pact with Stalin which gave him free rein to go to war with Germany's other neighbours.

      The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939.

      The new documents, copies of which have been seen by The Sunday Telegraph, show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin's generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome.

      But the British and French side— briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals— did not respond to the Soviet offer, made on August 15, 1939. Instead, Stalin turned to Germany, signing the notorious non-aggression treaty with Hitler barely a week later.

      The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, named after the foreign secretaries of the two countries, came on August 23— just a week before Nazi Germany attacked Poland, thereby sparking the outbreak of the war. But it would never have happened if Stalin's offer of a western alliance had been accepted, according to retired Russian foreign intelligence service Major General Lev Sotskov, who sorted the 700 pages of declassified documents.

      "This was the final chance to slay the wolf, even after [British Conservative prime minister Neville] Chamberlain and the French had given up Czechoslovakia to German aggression the previous year in the Munich Agreement," said Gen Sotskov, 75.

      The Soviet offer— made by war minister Marshall Klementi Voroshilov and Red Army chief of general staff Boris Shaposhnikov— would have put up to 120 infantry divisions (each with some 19,000 troops), 16 cavalry divisions, 5,000 heavy artillery pieces, 9,500 tanks and up to 5,500 fighter aircraft and bombers on Germany's borders in the event of war in the west, declassified minutes of the meeting show.

      But Admiral Sir Reginald Drax, who led the British delegation, told his Soviet counterparts that he authorised only to talk, not to make deals.

      "Had the British, French and their European ally Poland, taken this offer seriously then together we could have put some 300 or more divisions into the field on two fronts against Germany— double the number Hitler had at the time," said Gen Sotskov, who joined the Soviet intelligence service in 1956. "This was a chance to save the world or at least stop the wolf in its tracks."

      When asked what forces Britain itself could deploy in the west against possible Nazi aggression, Admiral Drax said there were just 16 combat ready divisions, leaving the Soviets bewildered by Britain's lack of preparation for the looming conflict.

      The Soviet attempt to secure an anti-Nazi alliance involving the British and the French is previously known. But the extent to which Moscow was prepared to go has never before been revealed.

      Simon Sebag Montefiore, best selling author of Young Stalin and Stalin: The Court of The Red Tsar, said it was apparent there were details in the declassified documents that were not known to western historians.

      "The detail of Stalin's offer underlines what is known; that the British and French may have lost a colossal opportunity in 1939 to prevent the German aggression which unleashed the Second World War. It shows that Stalin may have been more serious than we realised in offering this alliance."

      Professor Donald Cameron Watt, author of How War Came— widely seen as the definitive account of the last 12 months before war began— said the details were new, but said he was sceptical about the claim that they were spelled out during the meetings.

      "There was no mention of this in any of the three contemporaneous diaries, two British and one French— including that of Drax," he said. "I don't myself believe the Russians were serious."

      The declassified archives— which cover the period from early 1938 until the outbreak of war in September 1939— reveal that the Kremlin had known of the unprecedented pressure Britain and France put on Czechoslovakia to appease Hitler by surrendering the ethnic German Sudetenland region in 1938.

      "At every stage of the appeasement process, from the earliest top secret meetings between the British and French, we understood exactly and in detail what was going on," Gen Sotskov said.

      "It was clear that appeasement would not stop with Czechoslovakia's surrender of the Sudetenland and that neither the British nor the French would lift a finger when Hitler dismembered the rest of the country."

      Stalin's sources, Gen Sotskov says, were Soviet foreign intelligence agents in Europe, but not London. "The documents do not reveal precisely who the agents were, but they were probably in Paris or Rome."

      Shortly before the notorious Munich Agreement of 1938— in which Neville Chamberlain, the British prime minister, effectively gave Hitler the go-ahead to annexe the Sudetenland— Czechoslovakia's President Eduard Benes was told in no uncertain terms not to invoke his country's military treaty with the Soviet Union in the face of further German aggression.

      "Chamberlain knew that Czechoslovakia had been given up for lost the day he returned from Munich in September 1938 waving a piece of paper with Hitler's signature on it," Gen Sotksov said.

      The top secret discussions between the Anglo-French military delegation and the Soviets in August 1939— five months after the Nazis marched into Czechoslovakia— suggest both desperation and impotence of the western powers in the face of Nazi aggression.

      Poland, whose territory the vast Russian army would have had to cross to confront Germany, was firmly against such an alliance. Britain was doubtful about the efficacy of any Soviet forces because only the previous year, Stalin had purged thousands of top Red Army commanders.

      The documents will be used by Russian historians to help explain and justify Stalin's controversial pact with Hitler, which remains infamous as an example of diplomatic expediency.

      "It was clear that the Soviet Union stood alone and had to turn to Germany and sign a non-aggression pact to gain some time to prepare ourselves for the conflict that was clearly coming," said Gen Sotskov.

      A desperate attempt by the French on August 21 to revive the talks was rebuffed, as secret Soviet-Nazi talks were already well advanced.

      It was only two years later, following Hitler's Blitzkreig attack on Russia in June 1941, that the alliance with the West which Stalin had sought finally came about— by which time France, Poland and much of the rest of Europe were already under German occupation.

    • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]
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      https://archive.ph/4Kk3q

      https://countercurrents.org/2019/04/debunking-myths-of-red-brown-alliances/

      https://archive.ph/vQOWB

      https://archive.ph/YCQMT

      I'll try to find more later

      the main claim for stalin attempting to work with the British, French, and Polish before the MR pact seems to have been fully declassified long after the war, which is probably why not much is written about it.

  • Straight_Depth [they/them]
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    Doesn't matter for the libs; ultimately, they both invaded Poland and they took photos of each other smiling and celebrating after meeting halfway across Poland with swastikas and hammers and sickles side-by-side, something the other nations didn't do, so no matter how complex the situation may have been, that's the bit that will stick

    • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]
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      don't care, I'm documenting history instead of forgetting it. Liberals demand we forget history or else be deemed with some dreaded nonsense epithet. "Tankie" or "Stalinist."

      also, from one of these articles "Poland, whose territory the vast Russian army would have had to cross to confront Germany, was firmly against such an anti-fascist alliance." So you can see how the annexation of Poland's territory was the outcome of refusing to let the USSR cross their territory to fight Nazi Germany earlier. What you refer to as smiling and celebrating was an uneasy truce at a newly established front line which lasted less than a year. The USSR wanted to pack up the factories and move east to slow down what would become Operation Barbarossa, but neither the Polish nor the Finnish would allow cooperation with the USSR.

  • wrecker_vs_dracula [comrade/them]
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    Many communists were disillusioned by the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. At that point Germany had already banned the KPD and imprisoned many of its cadres in the now infamous Dachau concentration camp. It is often reported that the CPUSA suffered massive disenrollment as a reaction to the pact, and other parties around the world may have seen similar reactions.

    Notice I’m being careful with my words here because I’m not totally convinced such a reaction took place at such a great scale. I’ve heard it mentioned in several histories of the CPUSA, including a memoir of a pro-Soviet party member. This is not the same thing as looking at membership totals between 1938 and 1940, finding the rate of attrition, and adjusting for other known causes of membership loss.

    I would be interested to learn how the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was treated in the contemporary press, what the internal reaction was for other Comintern member parties, and what amount of disenrollment did it actually cause especially in the CPUSA.

    • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]
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      many contemporary communists were shocked and disgusted. If I recall it was a big deal for Communists in the AFL/CIO in the 30s, who became more liberal and loyal to the American government after the new deal compromises and seeing M-R pact go down.

      • LeninWeave [none/use name]
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        Communists in the AFL/CIO in the 30s, who became more liberal and loyal to the American government

        Good to know the American left has always had shit for brains. :che-smile:

  • FidelCashflow [he/him]
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    Again at the start of the war Germany had done fewer genocides than the allied powers so it was a fair choice. Plus, blowing up Britain is objectively cool and good

    • LeninWeave [none/use name]
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      Plus, blowing up Britain is objectively cool and good

      Regarding the terrorist group known as "the actual Nazis", you do not, under any circumstance, "gotta hand it to them".

  • ToastGhost [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    then the libs go 'buu buu buut soviet invaded poland' and you reply would you rather nazi germany occupy all of poland or half of it? stalin gave opportunity to half of poland to flee the nazis