like it seems fucking obvious, right? any medium that can contain degrees of symbolism, has the potential to provoke viewer interpretation, has the potential to contain specific or vague messaging from the creator, and just generally can be used for self-expression has the potential to be an art form.
Why the fuck is/was this a point of discussion? to the point of heated discourse, even! Was it just the most geriatric people they could find on the street? Weird snobs?
like, the second games started having narratives this should have been a moot topic. why the fuck did Kojima parrot it?
reading his statement, i feel there's two different discourses happening, the already solved (:lt-dbyf-dubois:) point of "can video games be art" and the more interesting question of "does the video game industry currently have a culture that promotes artistic endeavor over mass appeal"
to which my personal answer is 'no, but we're slowly getting there with the rise of auteurism (despite some of the problems inherent to it) in acclaimed development teams (:praise-it:) and the indie scene's entirety, and we'll see if it starts to push against the corporate board schlock in the future.'
but still, god damn, half of this debate comes from the same place as the video games cause violence bit and the other half is just people being annoyed with call of duty schlock, which, fair. but why is the former even a debate that happened/is happening. i'm genuinely curious.
I mean, I think that once again falls into that second category of debate. I'm more so astounded at the people who unironically argue it has no potential as an art form. Especially since I'm of the opinion that if it can be used to express the self, it can be art.
Not necessarily. Though they are certainly linear, I guess :lt-dbyf-dubois: and :trans-undertale: come to mind here in use of microreactivety in narrative choice and consequence/compounding branches of narrative that form a greater whole (I don't really know how to describe Undertale's linear-but-not-linear experience)?
Of course, they are indie, which allows them greater levels of creative control and risk-taking when it comes to narrative structure due to no checks from up high and less emphasis on the necessity of mass appeal, but they're prime examples of art-like games that don't necessarily railroad you into a singular experience.
I think Yahtzee had a good take on this intrinsically immersive narrative potential that games have to express themselves in an artistic form unlike all other mediums. Video games have this inherent advantage over other artistic mediums when it comes to being directly immersive and dynamic experiences. We're really only scratching the surface of the stories games can tell, and somewhat like Yahtzee I kinda believe we're in this weird transition period where we've discovered games can tell stories but are only understanding the surface level of what stories/means of expression only work within the medium of video games, and therefore we end up with the cinematic linear adventure game that is half of the AAA games in the modern age.
I'd even mention :praise-it: as a work that could only be properly told within the medium of a video game due to its emphasis on disconnected and environmental storytelling, as well as slowly piecing together discovered bits of the narrative puzzle as you discover them on path or out of the way, allowing it to flourish as this intimidating yet immersive setting.
But yeah, I think the latter is a more interesting medium of discussion. I definitely agree that there's a lot of 'just games' that complicate this discussion. Current industry culture isn't suited to the production of 'artistic' games, leading to a mass of 'just games' and for counterculture to pick up the artistic piece. On the other hand, would we say movies aren't art due to the existence and prevalence of the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Pretty sure that's the film equivalent of those 'just games', lmfao.
I'm utterly baffled by the former discourse though, which is truly the pinnacle of snobbery meeting boomer brain.