I just wanted to make one point and then bop back out because I don't really want to dip my toes into this whole thing, clearly there's some build up here.
When a white dude goes to Japan, he will get discriminated against in a way that is a similar construct to what we would call racism in America, I'll grant you. But I don't think it's good to call that racism. Look at it this way. Classes go beyond just the bourgeois and the proletariat. Women are a class. Men too. There are different classes of people of color, in different towns and cities and states. Racism in European and American society is specifically that prejudice against the descendents of the captive Black nation that settlers built here, as well as the broader way that American capitalism developed national identity and ethnicity into a large hierarchy that was much more complex than the skin color metric that we think about today. A white guy in Japan is going to experience a fundamentally different social construct because Japan developed differently, had different material conditions.
Food for thought: is it racist when people in rural Africa are fascinated by random white travelers? Probably not, considering that there isn't really a degree of violence associated with this othering at all. And racism connotes a deeply unpleasant kind of class animosity and dehumanization. What about the opposite, an African person being harangued in say Europe, in let's say a similar manner? I would argue there's a difference there and that different is different material development and cultural histories.
some dude gfoes to japan, gets ostracized, left out of conversation, called a gaijin… it’s funny because fuck white people, but is it funny when they start carving a swastika into their arm? not really. It’s easy to say “oh they were already a fascist” but I know a fucking lot of y’all were liberals a few years ago, don’t pretend you’re immune to bullshit just because you’re here now
Hmm. How interesting, he had to go to a different country where the institutions were not based around him. I wonder what that could tell us about what constitutes racism.
Why did you copy my entire comment to respond to it? Cattiness aside, you as a white boy can and will only ever experience racism if you go to a non-white majority country. Here, people said xenophobia or ethnocentrism worked better, why does the word racism matter so much here? Why are you so caught on it?
Because if you are engaging in those activities towards another human being because of their race, that they’re white or whatever, that is racism, and calling it anything BUT racism, or patently refusing to acknowledge that race is a motive, just fucking feeds right wing nazi dipshits. And I’m just so incredibly frustrated that y’all can’t see that, or that you take that assertion as blaming non-white people for reacting to white people’s reactions, or whatever. I’m frustrated about y’all in the same way I’m frustrated about hillary clinton/the pied piper memo shit/liberals not understanding the relevance of such. It’s just fucking frustrating because “people don’t want to be told they can’t experience this form of adversity even if they might have literally experienced aspects of it already” should be fucking self evidence. IMO we’re just absolutely fucked unless we have a pan-racial working class movement, i.e what Fred Hampton/MLK Jr were attempting when they were assassinated, and that’s never going to happen as long as the only people who understand that capitalism is fucked also spend 30% of their time telling white people to go cry about whatever their life has experienced.
I really hope someone saves all of this before it gets deleted because this is the most unhinged shit I have ever seen on this site
Im asking you, if you don’t want to answer fine, if so then I’ll ask why we keep running into this issue where I pose a question and you won’t answer it
But it isn’t inherently that they’re white and you shouldn’t take it as such. We already addressed the majority/dominant culture part in your Japanese analogy. When people say white people don’t experience racism it’s that as the dominant culture they’ll never be punished for not being white.
The fact that they’re “white” as in the immutable fact their skin is the color white is immaterial. They could be Japanese as in your thought experiment. They could be black in some were r/alternatehistory thing where Africa colonized Europe or whatever
Literally when someone says white you can slot “member of the dominant ruling culture/class/makority”
This is a semantic game which is the issue
You prefer to call it systemic racism but that cheapens the actual hostile oppression that targets of real racism, non-whites, have to endure by framing it as something analogous to someone merely individually having prejudice towards whites from a bad experience with them or whatever.
Do you see how the dude being in different material conditions is what changes ot tho? You literally keep arguing against yourself, the hypothetical white guy in Japan would be the same oppressed minority as bipoc are in the us. The Japanese wouldn't understand minority perspective but a minority living long enough in the culture or better yet, being raised in it, would have no choice but to internalize the ideas and ideology of its ruling class
You just happen to be part of the dominant culture but you're taking this criticism personally for no reason, that is reaction, as a comrade, as someone who's been there before, I'm saying take note of that for what it is and supercede it.
Same with this cocksicker and SA shit. I have almost definitely made similar arguments in the past, I'm not better than you, and people got just as frustrated w me bc the cishet white dude stubbornness is obnoxious dude. it doesn't come uo so often for nothing and the privilege that comes along with it makes it worse. These are oppurtunities to build better solidarity snd understanding, dont squash that by doubling down on your first inclination
I've mostly heard "black people can't be racist" from white liberals. (Seems to originate with theorists like Patricia Bidol-Padva, Robin DiAngelo, and Joseph Barndt.) It's not a common belief in Africa.
Imagine getting this pissed at people because they won't let you choose what definitions words have.
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new site tag
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my fellow sibling in cumskin, cease
this is an hilarious hill to die on tho tbf
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carving a swastika into my arm and looking back at my host country for approval
you could idk not do that maybe
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Then you learned how to self-crit at least a little. I hope you’re able to do that when you calm the fuck down
I just wanted to make one point and then bop back out because I don't really want to dip my toes into this whole thing, clearly there's some build up here.
When a white dude goes to Japan, he will get discriminated against in a way that is a similar construct to what we would call racism in America, I'll grant you. But I don't think it's good to call that racism. Look at it this way. Classes go beyond just the bourgeois and the proletariat. Women are a class. Men too. There are different classes of people of color, in different towns and cities and states. Racism in European and American society is specifically that prejudice against the descendents of the captive Black nation that settlers built here, as well as the broader way that American capitalism developed national identity and ethnicity into a large hierarchy that was much more complex than the skin color metric that we think about today. A white guy in Japan is going to experience a fundamentally different social construct because Japan developed differently, had different material conditions.
Food for thought: is it racist when people in rural Africa are fascinated by random white travelers? Probably not, considering that there isn't really a degree of violence associated with this othering at all. And racism connotes a deeply unpleasant kind of class animosity and dehumanization. What about the opposite, an African person being harangued in say Europe, in let's say a similar manner? I would argue there's a difference there and that different is different material development and cultural histories.
:jesse-wtf:
Hmm. How interesting, he had to go to a different country where the institutions were not based around him. I wonder what that could tell us about what constitutes racism.
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Why did you copy my entire comment to respond to it? Cattiness aside, you as a white boy can and will only ever experience racism if you go to a non-white majority country. Here, people said xenophobia or ethnocentrism worked better, why does the word racism matter so much here? Why are you so caught on it?
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I really hope someone saves all of this before it gets deleted because this is the most unhinged shit I have ever seen on this site
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Do you think when people are criticisizing white people about this they're criticizing the actual fact that they're white and have white skin?
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Im asking you, if you don’t want to answer fine, if so then I’ll ask why we keep running into this issue where I pose a question and you won’t answer it
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I mean your commenting you’re just not responding to the content. You’re already taking the time so go ahead and answer what I actually said
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Well I wish you would at least hear out my last comment but I understand. Either way good luck hope you continue to grow
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But it isn’t inherently that they’re white and you shouldn’t take it as such. We already addressed the majority/dominant culture part in your Japanese analogy. When people say white people don’t experience racism it’s that as the dominant culture they’ll never be punished for not being white.
The fact that they’re “white” as in the immutable fact their skin is the color white is immaterial. They could be Japanese as in your thought experiment. They could be black in some were r/alternatehistory thing where Africa colonized Europe or whatever
Literally when someone says white you can slot “member of the dominant ruling culture/class/makority”
This is a semantic game which is the issue
You prefer to call it systemic racism but that cheapens the actual hostile oppression that targets of real racism, non-whites, have to endure by framing it as something analogous to someone merely individually having prejudice towards whites from a bad experience with them or whatever.
Do you see how the dude being in different material conditions is what changes ot tho? You literally keep arguing against yourself, the hypothetical white guy in Japan would be the same oppressed minority as bipoc are in the us. The Japanese wouldn't understand minority perspective but a minority living long enough in the culture or better yet, being raised in it, would have no choice but to internalize the ideas and ideology of its ruling class
You just happen to be part of the dominant culture but you're taking this criticism personally for no reason, that is reaction, as a comrade, as someone who's been there before, I'm saying take note of that for what it is and supercede it.
Same with this cocksicker and SA shit. I have almost definitely made similar arguments in the past, I'm not better than you, and people got just as frustrated w me bc the cishet white dude stubbornness is obnoxious dude. it doesn't come uo so often for nothing and the privilege that comes along with it makes it worse. These are oppurtunities to build better solidarity snd understanding, dont squash that by doubling down on your first inclination
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you are looking to :reddit-logo: for things that validate your existing opinions on race. This is cringe.
:yikes-1::yikes-2::yikes-2::yikes-3:
Genuinely hope when you cool down you think about why it is you won't answer me without deflecting and try to unpack that. Good luck
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definitions of words are important, ask anyone who's been to court
Yeah, that’s why it matters that white people shouldn’t get to define racism lol
I've mostly heard "black people can't be racist" from white liberals. (Seems to originate with theorists like Patricia Bidol-Padva, Robin DiAngelo, and Joseph Barndt.) It's not a common belief in Africa.