it's because they haven't read it

:matt-jokerfied:

no seriously, on the recent chapo episode with brace they went on this 10 minute rant about the book and then every admitted they had never read it

good stuff

  • star_wraith [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Also think theres a cultural element of feeling like white people are entitled to petite bourgeois privilege that persists in a lot of white working class people even while their material conditions are shit.

    I think this is an interesting point. I do think conditions have changed since Sakai wrote the book that Bluegrass_Buddhist points out. But it seems like the "echo" of past privileges still resonates with the white working class, as well as plenty of explicit privileges that still exist.

    • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
      ·
      2 years ago

      The thing is you can’t really hand wave in whole or in part what settlers is talking bc it’s like 50 years old. That’s like libs saying Marx isn’t relevant bc computers or whatever, the analysis In the book is through broad periods of America, and those histories will continue to shape the present and future. Also it’s not like white people being downwardly mobile and being into socialism is a new thing. Before the red scare a lot of white workers were socialist and a large part of the book is dedicated to this period which honestly mirrors current events in a lot of ways. I’d be suspicious of saying conditions have changed so this isn’t relevant now when I continue to see privileged people fall into similar pitfalls, how often poc still have to point out how their voices are marginalized over white comrades in purportedly leftist spaces.

      • Bluegrass_Buddhist [none/use name]
        ·
        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Before the red scare a lot of white workers were socialist and a large part of the book is dedicated to this period which honestly mirrors current events in a lot of ways.

        That's a very good point. My assumption was that in a post-1992, post-2014, post-2020 world, where US demographics are becoming much less white, that young white workers would be more aware of and want to guard against racism in their workplaces and orgs. But maybe that was wishful thinking on my part.

        • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Well we’re having these discussions now so that’s definitely a good thing and probably something you wouldn’t have seen as much in the time periods settler was talking about. I think things are improving for sure I just think it’s good to be cautious about saying everything is equal and coming into leftist spaces saying that bc we still have a lot of work to do to get there and it definitely privileges white people for that to bc widespread if I’m making sense.

          Sorry I’m writing these between editing at work so if I’m being inarticulate that’s why lol

          • Bluegrass_Buddhist [none/use name]
            ·
            edit-2
            2 years ago

            No worries! I get what you're saying, and I agree. Sorry if it seems like I was saying that white supremacy doesn't exist in left spaces or that whiteness isn't still a major hurdle, maybe the biggest, to broad working class solidarity. I just meant that, as conditions in the US continue to spiral, perhaps the barriers that separate white workers from a lasting class conciousness (one that includes their privileged relationship to PoC workers) aren't as concrete as they were in Sakai's day, or in the eras he examined.

      • star_wraith [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Sorry, to clarify I'm all on board with Settlers, I just think there's value in adding to it based on current conditions vs 50 years ago.

    • ShittyWallpaper [they/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      I will attest that I’m a white person raising white kids in the core and that my child, through no signaling of mine, has it in their head that we ought to own nice cars, own designer clothes, and go on several vacations a year. I know some of this is just children wanting to do fun stuff and have cool things, but the specifics of what things are absolutely reek of white nostalgia for the 50’s and a general romanticization of bourgeois culture.

      I swear I’m not trying to drag my kid for not being sufficiently proletarian. Just pointing out that through media consumption and talking to their peers they’ve seeped up the same propaganda as everyone else, no matter how much I’ve made sure my parenting doesn’t reflect or encourage that