i mean china has throughout history been a threatening greater power that vietnam has had to fight off over and over
and then the vietnamese spend decades fighting for their independence from the french and then from the americans, and then when they finally win their freedom they have to fight off the khmer rouge, and then china comes in and bombs the shit out them for taking out fucking pol pot?
like the us and france are an existential evil, but i can totally see how that attack - after everything else they had to suffer through - from a country that should by all rights have been a socialist ally cant help but feel like an incredibly brutal betrayal, a far deeper cut
and fwiw the vietnamese people i know still fear china as the big regional threat, and a big issue that ive heard a lot is chinese ships throwing their weight around against vietnamese fishing boats etc off the coast and really fanning the flames of animosity and distrust
The CPC despite the stupid ass sino-soviet split brainwormed military intervention to protect cambodia was a major ally in Vietnam's anti-colonial stuggle both against the french and the US. Its hard to ask for "logic" in these feelings between people and countries but you can still be disappointed in the disconnect of Vietnam (and especially its youth) being majority positive towards America + Majority negative towards China when the harm caused by each in living memory isnt remotely comperable.
You can and should start considering and analysing how much US cultural and media hegemony has taken hold there as explenation as much ,if not more , as analysing centuries old imperial actions of completely different national entities.
Also believing south china sea bs is something unilateraly instigated by China against poor vietnam and other regional countries is bying into the western framing of the situation. Vietnam pretty much does and claims the same things as China in the erea and maybe even more so proportionaly to its size and position. The tensions and not coming to friendly resolutions arent just at the hands of China
honestly after everything the vietnamese people have gone through i think theyve earned the right to think whatever the hell they want about the various countries that have invaded them, and i dont think any of us have the right to be disappointed in them for it
i have zero knowledge about the south china sea stuff and who started what and how much of what the vietnamese people are being told is their own propaganda, but i can tell you that with a much more powerful neighbour right on their northern border who has invaded and bombed them in living memory (for the stupidest fucking reason) and with growing world power and with shenanigans going on off the coast ratcheting up tensions, the vietnamese people i know (both people living there and people who have emigrated as adults) do see them as a real threat and i dont think its strange or unreasonable for them to be very very wary and distrustful after everything thats happened
honestly after everything the vietnamese people have gone through i think theyve earned the right to think whatever the hell they want about the various countries that have invaded them, and i dont think any of us have the right to be disappointed in them for it
Every and any people "can think whatever they want" . As an outsider looking into those dynamics you should put a lot of weight in their perspective ,especially opressed and colonized people, but also are free to not stop there and look at greater dynamics and historic and cultural changes. I never said im disappointed or disaproveing of the Vietnamese people having misgivings and negative outlook towards China. I only said that im dissapointed on how disproportionately opposite those seem compared to their positive public opinions and attitude towards America and the west that has in living memory killed,colonized and immiserated tens of millions of Vietnamese . And considering that that (not the hating China part) is probably a result of the US/western cultural hegemony and media having more of a hold and presence in Vietnam than any other AES project is what is disappointing
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how is vietnam strange? like sad though it is, they have every reason to hate and distrust china
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i mean china has throughout history been a threatening greater power that vietnam has had to fight off over and over
and then the vietnamese spend decades fighting for their independence from the french and then from the americans, and then when they finally win their freedom they have to fight off the khmer rouge, and then china comes in and bombs the shit out them for taking out fucking pol pot?
like the us and france are an existential evil, but i can totally see how that attack - after everything else they had to suffer through - from a country that should by all rights have been a socialist ally cant help but feel like an incredibly brutal betrayal, a far deeper cut
and fwiw the vietnamese people i know still fear china as the big regional threat, and a big issue that ive heard a lot is chinese ships throwing their weight around against vietnamese fishing boats etc off the coast and really fanning the flames of animosity and distrust
The CPC despite the stupid ass sino-soviet split brainwormed military intervention to protect cambodia was a major ally in Vietnam's anti-colonial stuggle both against the french and the US. Its hard to ask for "logic" in these feelings between people and countries but you can still be disappointed in the disconnect of Vietnam (and especially its youth) being majority positive towards America + Majority negative towards China when the harm caused by each in living memory isnt remotely comperable.
You can and should start considering and analysing how much US cultural and media hegemony has taken hold there as explenation as much ,if not more , as analysing centuries old imperial actions of completely different national entities.
Also believing south china sea bs is something unilateraly instigated by China against poor vietnam and other regional countries is bying into the western framing of the situation. Vietnam pretty much does and claims the same things as China in the erea and maybe even more so proportionaly to its size and position. The tensions and not coming to friendly resolutions arent just at the hands of China
honestly after everything the vietnamese people have gone through i think theyve earned the right to think whatever the hell they want about the various countries that have invaded them, and i dont think any of us have the right to be disappointed in them for it
i have zero knowledge about the south china sea stuff and who started what and how much of what the vietnamese people are being told is their own propaganda, but i can tell you that with a much more powerful neighbour right on their northern border who has invaded and bombed them in living memory (for the stupidest fucking reason) and with growing world power and with shenanigans going on off the coast ratcheting up tensions, the vietnamese people i know (both people living there and people who have emigrated as adults) do see them as a real threat and i dont think its strange or unreasonable for them to be very very wary and distrustful after everything thats happened
Every and any people "can think whatever they want" . As an outsider looking into those dynamics you should put a lot of weight in their perspective ,especially opressed and colonized people, but also are free to not stop there and look at greater dynamics and historic and cultural changes. I never said im disappointed or disaproveing of the Vietnamese people having misgivings and negative outlook towards China. I only said that im dissapointed on how disproportionately opposite those seem compared to their positive public opinions and attitude towards America and the west that has in living memory killed,colonized and immiserated tens of millions of Vietnamese . And considering that that (not the hating China part) is probably a result of the US/western cultural hegemony and media having more of a hold and presence in Vietnam than any other AES project is what is disappointing
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