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  • star_wraith [he/him]
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    2 years ago

    Counterpoint, from a New Yorker interview in 2019 (pardon the massive western lib bias on the part of the author):

    The answer duplicated government propaganda so exactly that I couldn’t help asking Liu if he ever thought he might have been brainwashed [star_wraith's note: right before this Liu defends the CPC's actions in Xinjiang]. “I know what you are thinking,” he told me with weary clarity. “What about individual liberty and freedom of governance?” He sighed, as if exhausted by a debate going on in his head. “But that’s not what Chinese people care about. For ordinary folks, it’s the cost of health care, real-estate prices, their children’s education. Not democracy.”

    I looked at him, studying his face. He blinked, and continued, “If you were to loosen up the country a bit, the consequences would be terrifying.” [...skipping a spoilery part about the book, referencing aliens...]

    Liu closed his eyes for a long moment and then said quietly, “This is why I don’t like to talk about subjects like this. The truth is you don’t really—I mean, can’t truly—understand.” He gestured around him. “You’ve lived here, in the U.S., for, what, going on three decades?” The implication was clear: years in the West had brainwashed me. In that moment, in Liu’s mind, I, with my inflexible sense of morality, was the alien.

    And so, Liu explained to me, the existing regime made the most sense for today’s China, because to change it would be to invite chaos. “If China were to transform into a democracy, it would be hell on earth,” he said. “I would evacuate tomorrow, to the United States or Europe or—I don’t know.” The irony that the countries he was proposing were democracies seemed to escape his notice. He went on, “Here’s the truth: if you were to become the President of China tomorrow, you would find that you had no other choice than to do exactly as he has done.”

    Obviously there are some problems with Liu's thoughts (emigrate to the US?!), but I really like his point about the interviewer being the one who's "brainwashed" in western propaganda (and funny how the author just completely dismisses it out of hand, like it's simply beyond the pale that a westerner would be "brainwashed"). Sounds like Liu, while probably not a Marxist, still broadly supports everything the CPC has done and is doing.

    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      The irony that the countries he was proposing were democracies seemed to escape his notice.

      That these are the two wealthiest, most cosmopolitan areas of the world seemed to escape the journalist's notice.

    • emizeko [they/them]
      hexagon
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      2 years ago

      Liu is still working with a fundamentally liberal definition of democracy here, but that was pretty good. imagine if he had hit him with the Lenin quote about democracy for the slaveowners though

    • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
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      2 years ago

      “But that’s not what Chinese people care about. For ordinary folks, it’s the cost of health care, real-estate prices, their children’s education. Not democracy.”

      “If China were to transform into a democracy, it would be hell on earth,” he said. “I would evacuate tomorrow, to the United States or Europe or—I don’t know.” The irony that the countries he was proposing were democracies seemed to escape his notice.

      It seems pretty clear (abet somewhat naive) to me. Liu is valuing quality of life over some abstract democratic ideal. He recognizes that a liberalization of the state and the economy would kick off the deprecation we've seen in India, Eastern Europe, and Latin America. Why would he want to live on the periphery, rather than in the Imperial Core where quality of life would be better?

      He might not understand all the nuts and bolts of neoliberalism, and how it grinds up a liberalized country into fodder for the imperial core to consume. But he sees how these things start and how they end. So he knows which side of the Wall he'd rather live on once it comes down.

      Sounds like Liu, while probably not a Marxist, still broadly supports everything the CPC has done and is doing.

      He supports the consequences of CPC policy, even if he's not thrilled with its methods. He likes living comfortably. And modern China is a very comfortable place to live.