being a leftist isnt about takes, its about what you do. both ml and anarchist approaches are good for different situations. aes states dont need the endorsement of your local food not bombs group, but the people in your community do need food. decentralized groups doing praxis is sometimes the best option, especially in the imperial core as conditions worsen. takes dont matter and aesthetics dont matter. just praxis.
dont blame you there. but unless their feelings become something more than takes, probably aint worth it to cut em off. once youre organized enough to get some real power, worry about takes and who gets to be a part of the left.
so how do we silence bad takes on aes, take power from people who have those bad takes, and use that power to diminish us imperialism? would ditching the anti-sectarian rule on hexbear do that?
maybe im dense, but i still dont get whats to be done.
Doing vs takes is a false dichotomy. You have to do both at the same time.
Doing stuff with a take is actually very important and is one of the weaknesses of non-strategic mutual aid. I've known folks that wanted do mutual aid via a socialist org, for example, who needed to be reminded that the org's banner should be there and it should be an opportunity to talk to people and generally propagandize. There is a risk of just doing charity, not mutual aid, if you don't use theory, and can become recuperated or ignored if you don't spread a coherent message (which can be as simple as, "this is who is doing this").
I do want to point out that what I'm saying isn't validating sectarianism, though. Ancoms are some of the best at this.
i guess i just dont know why anarchists with aes bad takes are being singled out here, when china bad is one of the least harmful takes a leftist outside china can have since theyve got no power over anything that happens there. maybe it means they got other problems with their theory and praxis that i dont grasp.
China bad is actually very relevant to domestic politics and where a left org should position itself and organize. International solidarity and anti-imperialism are some of the best things you can do in the imperial core. The context in which we operate is one that requires the manufacturing of consent for imperialist actions and war and we will fail to capture and direct new leftists in a direction that actually builds socialism rather than helps destroy it if we can't (1) push new leftists into anti-imperialist positions and (2) pitch and direct anti-war liberals into anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist organizing.
Put another way, if you don't do anti-imperialism, you'll both fail to have international solidarity (you'll actually end up being a "CIA leftist" because US NatSec propaganda will win and you'll let the reactionaries in) and will end up fighting for the conditions of labor aristocrats locally instead of and against children working 14 hour days in Bangladesh. And when war comes a-knocking, which is always in the imperial core, you'll be cheering it on and posting Ukraine flags and going poggers over Zelensky memes and snuff films of Russian soldiers, which is to say, manufacturing consent for the immiseration of millions and the promotion of a unipolar capitalist order.
And what we would have power over, as we build, is resources and propaganda and organizing energy for imperial efforts.
At the end of the day, the question always ends up being, "are you actually going to seriously organize as a coherent anticapitalist?" and in the West the answer is usually no because westerners rarely read let alone break out of hegemonic liberalism, and that includes self-titled socialists, anarchists, communists, etc. We need to make the answer yes, and this requires anti-imperialism full stop, as otherwise your org won't understand capitalism, won't understand international solidarity, won't understand your local culture, won't understand socialism or anarchism, and will end up failing to advance the cause / furthering capitalism instead.
Ha I didn't notice they deleted it. No need to worry, I am very repetitive and will say this kind of thing elsewhere too, probably too often. Thanks for hearing me out!
being a leftist isnt about takes, its about what you do. both ml and anarchist approaches are good for different situations. aes states dont need the endorsement of your local food not bombs group, but the people in your community do need food. decentralized groups doing praxis is sometimes the best option, especially in the imperial core as conditions worsen. takes dont matter and aesthetics dont matter. just praxis.
deleted by creator
dont blame you there. but unless their feelings become something more than takes, probably aint worth it to cut em off. once youre organized enough to get some real power, worry about takes and who gets to be a part of the left.
deleted by creator
so how do we silence bad takes on aes, take power from people who have those bad takes, and use that power to diminish us imperialism? would ditching the anti-sectarian rule on hexbear do that?
maybe im dense, but i still dont get whats to be done.
Doing vs takes is a false dichotomy. You have to do both at the same time.
Doing stuff with a take is actually very important and is one of the weaknesses of non-strategic mutual aid. I've known folks that wanted do mutual aid via a socialist org, for example, who needed to be reminded that the org's banner should be there and it should be an opportunity to talk to people and generally propagandize. There is a risk of just doing charity, not mutual aid, if you don't use theory, and can become recuperated or ignored if you don't spread a coherent message (which can be as simple as, "this is who is doing this").
I do want to point out that what I'm saying isn't validating sectarianism, though. Ancoms are some of the best at this.
thats a fair point. theory is important.
i guess i just dont know why anarchists with aes bad takes are being singled out here, when china bad is one of the least harmful takes a leftist outside china can have since theyve got no power over anything that happens there. maybe it means they got other problems with their theory and praxis that i dont grasp.
China bad is actually very relevant to domestic politics and where a left org should position itself and organize. International solidarity and anti-imperialism are some of the best things you can do in the imperial core. The context in which we operate is one that requires the manufacturing of consent for imperialist actions and war and we will fail to capture and direct new leftists in a direction that actually builds socialism rather than helps destroy it if we can't (1) push new leftists into anti-imperialist positions and (2) pitch and direct anti-war liberals into anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist organizing.
Put another way, if you don't do anti-imperialism, you'll both fail to have international solidarity (you'll actually end up being a "CIA leftist" because US NatSec propaganda will win and you'll let the reactionaries in) and will end up fighting for the conditions of labor aristocrats locally instead of and against children working 14 hour days in Bangladesh. And when war comes a-knocking, which is always in the imperial core, you'll be cheering it on and posting Ukraine flags and going poggers over Zelensky memes and snuff films of Russian soldiers, which is to say, manufacturing consent for the immiseration of millions and the promotion of a unipolar capitalist order.
And what we would have power over, as we build, is resources and propaganda and organizing energy for imperial efforts.
At the end of the day, the question always ends up being, "are you actually going to seriously organize as a coherent anticapitalist?" and in the West the answer is usually no because westerners rarely read let alone break out of hegemonic liberalism, and that includes self-titled socialists, anarchists, communists, etc. We need to make the answer yes, and this requires anti-imperialism full stop, as otherwise your org won't understand capitalism, won't understand international solidarity, won't understand your local culture, won't understand socialism or anarchism, and will end up failing to advance the cause / furthering capitalism instead.
thanks for the explanation. i guess ignoring china bad takes is short sighted if you dont purge them from your org as it grows.
i hope you post this somewhere else since otherwise ill be the only one who sees it after the op deleted their post.
Ha I didn't notice they deleted it. No need to worry, I am very repetitive and will say this kind of thing elsewhere too, probably too often. Thanks for hearing me out!