I ask again, was that argument being made here, on Hexbear?
Besides, it's possible to take exception to the alienating aspects of unmitigated treat machines in an unchecked capitalistic system and to value artistic endeavors by human beings (or elephants, or gorillas, or whatever else) over those products made from mostly uncredited and even stolen labor without that being knee-jerked lumped in with a religious belief, as if that was automatically a bad thing to begin with. I know more liberation theology comrades I'd throw down with than I know :reddit-logo: New Atheist types that wouldn't sell out their own family members in exchange for a warm callout tweet from :my-hero: .
I'll say it again and I'll stand by it: I am not religious but I know liberation theology comrades that I trust and support. Being nonreligious is far from automatic comrade status and in fact a lot of contemporary atheists are full blown corpo bootlickers or fash.
Again, I don't share the beliefs of my religious friends, but knee-jerk laughing at them is probably a mistake when so many "Singularity" and "Effective Altruism" New Atheist cultists (:my-hero: included) would be pleased to see us all dead.
I actually argue that it kind of does, if indirectly.
Atheism is no guarantee that someone is a comrade and being religious in and of itself is no guarantee that that person deserves to be mocked and shunned. Well fine, maybe some religions really have it coming.
No. Not even on average. In fact in my experience someone being an atheist has almost no direct influence on where they stand on a right/left axis. I'd even argue in my local area there are more right wing atheists than right wing religious people, though that may be a weird Bay Area thing.
I already said it a few times but I'll say it again once more: those "random atheists" are examples of knee-jerk derisive hostility toward religious people being ill-founded, especially when it comes to class-conscious attempts at solidarity. Being atheist is far from a guarantee that someone isn't a reactionary or worse.
If you want to score some philosophical victory on how categorically wrong religious people are as a group, it'll likely be a pyrrhic victory where lots of potential comrades are put off by the "you're not wrong, you're just an asshole" effect that tends to come from such efforts.
I don't disagree with you, except to say that alienating them from the start with :reddit-logo: tier self-congratulatory smugness and mockery instead of winning them over as a demographic over time (while having protective measures against religious bullshit infiltrating the levers of power) is a mistake.
I ask again, was that argument being made here, on Hexbear?
Besides, it's possible to take exception to the alienating aspects of unmitigated treat machines in an unchecked capitalistic system and to value artistic endeavors by human beings (or elephants, or gorillas, or whatever else) over those products made from mostly uncredited and even stolen labor without that being knee-jerked lumped in with a religious belief, as if that was automatically a bad thing to begin with. I know more liberation theology comrades I'd throw down with than I know :reddit-logo: New Atheist types that wouldn't sell out their own family members in exchange for a warm callout tweet from :my-hero: .
when did i say it was
oh, did you interpret "we" as meaning, like, hexbear posters?
Yes.
i just kinda meant like everyone in general :shrug-outta-hecks:
:data-laughing:
I'll say it again and I'll stand by it: I am not religious but I know liberation theology comrades that I trust and support. Being nonreligious is far from automatic comrade status and in fact a lot of contemporary atheists are full blown corpo bootlickers or fash.
definitely loads of atheists are cringe, i will never deny that
Again, I don't share the beliefs of my religious friends, but knee-jerk laughing at them is probably a mistake when so many "Singularity" and "Effective Altruism" New Atheist cultists (:my-hero: included) would be pleased to see us all dead.
can't we just laugh at all of these groups at once? redditors finding new and even less cool cults doesn't make religion any better
I actually argue that it kind of does, if indirectly.
Atheism is no guarantee that someone is a comrade and being religious in and of itself is no guarantee that that person deserves to be mocked and shunned. Well fine, maybe some religions really have it coming.
definitely, but on average?
No. Not even on average. In fact in my experience someone being an atheist has almost no direct influence on where they stand on a right/left axis. I'd even argue in my local area there are more right wing atheists than right wing religious people, though that may be a weird Bay Area thing.
probably, yeah, that place is cursed
It is, it is. Police robots with lethal fucking weapons almost got legalized locally, and still might be very soon. :no-mouth-must-scream:
:agony-immense:
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I already said it a few times but I'll say it again once more: those "random atheists" are examples of knee-jerk derisive hostility toward religious people being ill-founded, especially when it comes to class-conscious attempts at solidarity. Being atheist is far from a guarantee that someone isn't a reactionary or worse.
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If you want to score some philosophical victory on how categorically wrong religious people are as a group, it'll likely be a pyrrhic victory where lots of potential comrades are put off by the "you're not wrong, you're just an asshole" effect that tends to come from such efforts.
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I don't disagree with you, except to say that alienating them from the start with :reddit-logo: tier self-congratulatory smugness and mockery instead of winning them over as a demographic over time (while having protective measures against religious bullshit infiltrating the levers of power) is a mistake.
were they really, if they were put off by this sort of thing?
Yes, actually.
People don't usually start as full fledged leftists. Most people here that told their own stories started somewhere else.
Being smugly hostile toward religious people is an arrogant and self-defeating strategy in the long run.