The western values Ukraine is defending are becoming more apparent by the day.

  • robinnn
    ·
    8 months ago

    I don't care if my comment is "normal," but it is "rational and source-supported." You're not "calling out hexbear users," you're flaunting your ignorance. Points sourced one by one:

    It’s littered with monuments to Nazis and Nazi collaborators [*] [*]

    its armed forces are filled with Nazis [*] [*] [*]

    Tweet by the National Guard of Ukraine:

    Show

    its leadership pays homage to Nazi collaborators [*] [*] [*]

    and the entire reason we’re in this situation is the US-backed coup in 2014 of which Nazis were the prime domestic force [*] [*]

    and which led to the proliferation of Nazi gangs [*] [*]

    (illegal cluster munitions used) and repeated violations of ceasefires [*] [*]

    they had specific demands for the end of far-right nationalism, repression of Russian speakers, and NATO expansion [*] [*]

    NATO itself being a Nazi collaborationist institution [*] [*]

    • QuietCupcake [any, they/them]
      ·
      8 months ago

      I just want to thank you and @davel@lemmy.ml for the time and effort you put into these heavily-sourced and informative comments. Even if these lying, willfully ignorant shitlibs can't appreciate it because it so clearly demonstrates how wrong they are and how little they know, some of us reading do appreciate it. I've learned a lot as a result and am better equipped to help others who might be willing to try to better understand the situation too.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Show

        lying, willfully ignorant shitlibs

        Not everyone in the audience is that. I was a Burgerland lib once, too, exposed to the exact same propaganda for decades, so I know at least some can break out of it, if they’re curious & intellectually honest.

        After witnessing in real time how obviously fabricated the justification for the Iraq War was, and how seemingly credulously the media propagated it, I was no longer able to ignore the cracks in the propaganda. It still took me many, many years to peel away layer after layer. It’s a process. I’m just trying to help people get there faster than I did. The dissonance between what’s happening in Gaza & the West Bank right now and Western governments’ & corporate media’s coverage of it is even harder to ignore than the Iraqi WMD lies were twenty years ago, so this is an opportune moment for others.

        • QuietCupcake [any, they/them]
          ·
          8 months ago

          Not everyone in the audience is that.

          For sure, and I hope it didn't look like I was implying that. It's why I made a point to say that "some of us reading" appreciate your commentary. The "lying, willfully ignorant" thing was referring specifically to Unruffled and empireOfLove who you and robinnn were replying to respectively. The long process of questioning propaganda and the widening cracks that you describe is similar to my own experience, and I even commented recently about how the purpose of debating people in these online threads is rarely to change the mind of the person you're arguing with, but rather to speak to the audience and plant the seeds that their doubt will hopefully grow from over time.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
            ·
            8 months ago

            Yup, you totally get it. I doubt I’ll see the fruits of my labor on a pseudonymous social media platform, and I’m okay with that.

      • robinnn
        ·
        8 months ago

        Of course there isn’t.

      • WittyProfileName2 [she/her]
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        No it's just thinly veiled Islamophobia.

        Some fascists have an urban myth that since pork is haram, Muslims shot by a bullet covered in lard go to hell.

        Chechnya has a lot of Muslims and Ramzan Kadyrov is the head of state of Chechnya, so "Kadyrov orcs" is a dog whistle for Muslims.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
        ·
        8 months ago

        Lard is pig fat, which they use because it’s not kosher, despite most of their targets not being Jews. Nazism is vibes-based and seldom makes sense. Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. —Voltaire

        • QuietCupcake [any, they/them]
          ·
          8 months ago

          It wasn't because the fascists thought they were fighting Jews (in this case), it was because most of the Chechen soldiers were Muslim, who also have prohibitions on using or consuming pigs. It was of course typical nazi-style petty racism, but it was specifically about targeting Muslims.