I am just trying to understand you, examples help, I'm not really asking for "proof", it's not a debate it's a conversation. This kind of thing is going to be quite generalised, we're talking about feelings and emotions in art.
My general point is that when core parts of the identity of the entire genre are doing devil horns with your hands, screaming as loudly as possible and thrashing your head back and forth while applauding drink, drugs and DEATH to the excess... You have to accept that this is intentionally absurd, a push against the boundaries of normal.
Metal is an invitation to be excessive, and in that excess you find absurdity. I'm not saying that metal itself is all a parody, but that failing to understand that metal is at its very core an absurd and over-the-top invitation to scream and delight in death blood and chaos means a failure to understand metal. This is, at its core, ridiculous, and that is why it works when you combine it with the ridiculous.
This isn't an attack against metal, I like metal, I have listened to a wide variety of different types of metal and very much enjoyed the metal and alt-clubs I used to regular at every weekend. I am just deconstructing why taking it too seriously like some of these people do is arguably a misunderstanding of what metal fundamentally is.
Yeah sure that's a good descriptor. Jojo is completely ridiculous too, in a good way.
It's all about being intentionally excessive while staying within the boundaries of a particular theme. When you realise that "excess" is a fundamental component, you can take that excess to practically any degree you want and it works because it's literally the point. That's the same for Jojo and other things that have been influenced by it.
Yeah I mean "taking it seriously" to be lacking some sort of self awareness that the whole point of the genre is enjoying excess, and if you're determining that something isn't metal because it's not black and dark enough you're really killing the vibe of metal itself which is definitely about enjoying excess. Standing in a thunderstorm and giving the finger to a thunderbolt is ridiculous, it's also very metal. Determining that this or that isn't metal enough because there's not enough skulls is fundamentally antithetical to metal to me, it misunderstands metal as silly.
Unless someone is doing it with self-awareness, then I guess it becomes metal again?
I mean I would argue that genres like post metal and other atmospheric metal genres tend to focus on more grounded suffering and communicating that through contrasting the beautiful and the harsh, thematically and aurally. It's not exactly over the top and even tongue in cheek like you would get from power metal or some black metal (and plenty of other metal genres). I take it as seriously as I would any other piece from more self serious genres along the lines of, say, post punk.
Think of an album like Panopticon by ISIS. I have zero issue taking seriously the sound and themes presented on that album. Metal isn't inherently devil horns and pentagrams, even if that aesthetic surrounds its origins and persists.
I am just trying to understand you, examples help, I'm not really asking for "proof", it's not a debate it's a conversation. This kind of thing is going to be quite generalised, we're talking about feelings and emotions in art.
My general point is that when core parts of the identity of the entire genre are doing devil horns with your hands, screaming as loudly as possible and thrashing your head back and forth while applauding drink, drugs and DEATH to the excess... You have to accept that this is intentionally absurd, a push against the boundaries of normal.
Metal is an invitation to be excessive, and in that excess you find absurdity. I'm not saying that metal itself is all a parody, but that failing to understand that metal is at its very core an absurd and over-the-top invitation to scream and delight in death blood and chaos means a failure to understand metal. This is, at its core, ridiculous, and that is why it works when you combine it with the ridiculous.
This isn't an attack against metal, I like metal, I have listened to a wide variety of different types of metal and very much enjoyed the metal and alt-clubs I used to regular at every weekend. I am just deconstructing why taking it too seriously like some of these people do is arguably a misunderstanding of what metal fundamentally is.
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Yeah sure that's a good descriptor. Jojo is completely ridiculous too, in a good way.
It's all about being intentionally excessive while staying within the boundaries of a particular theme. When you realise that "excess" is a fundamental component, you can take that excess to practically any degree you want and it works because it's literally the point. That's the same for Jojo and other things that have been influenced by it.
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Yeah I mean "taking it seriously" to be lacking some sort of self awareness that the whole point of the genre is enjoying excess, and if you're determining that something isn't metal because it's not black and dark enough you're really killing the vibe of metal itself which is definitely about enjoying excess. Standing in a thunderstorm and giving the finger to a thunderbolt is ridiculous, it's also very metal. Determining that this or that isn't metal enough because there's not enough skulls is fundamentally antithetical to metal to me, it misunderstands metal as silly.
Unless someone is doing it with self-awareness, then I guess it becomes metal again?
I mean I would argue that genres like post metal and other atmospheric metal genres tend to focus on more grounded suffering and communicating that through contrasting the beautiful and the harsh, thematically and aurally. It's not exactly over the top and even tongue in cheek like you would get from power metal or some black metal (and plenty of other metal genres). I take it as seriously as I would any other piece from more self serious genres along the lines of, say, post punk.
Think of an album like Panopticon by ISIS. I have zero issue taking seriously the sound and themes presented on that album. Metal isn't inherently devil horns and pentagrams, even if that aesthetic surrounds its origins and persists.