• FuckYourselfEndless [ze/hir]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Did Mark Ames rebuke believing the US did it initially on Twitter or am I misremembering things?

    • build_a_bear_group [he/him, comrade/them]
      hexagon
      ·
      2 years ago

      He kind of did. This has been a thing since the Ukraine invasion, where they say things like "We don't know. We're not going to make predictions. It's hard to say, but maybe it was Russia. There were a lot of moves, including the invasion, Russia made that don't make rational sense." And have also backed down from being as critical of the official narrative with regards to Russia.

      • duderium [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        They’re still shellshocked from repeatedly claiming that Putin would never be foolish enough to invade Ukraine. Seeing as how the Ukrainian government was threatening to build nukes if they weren’t allowed to join NATO, I can’t say I blame him.

        • Tachanka [comrade/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Seeing as how the Ukrainian government was threatening to build nukes if they weren’t allowed to join NATO

          oh shit. that's an angle i hadn't heard about before. source?

          • culpritus [any]
            ·
            edit-2
            2 years ago

            https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/vistup-prezidenta-ukrayini-na-58-j-myunhenskij-konferenciyi-72997

            19 February 2022 - 18:14

            Since 2014, Ukraine has tried three times to convene consultations with the guarantor states of the Budapest Memorandum. Three times without success. Today Ukraine will do it for the fourth time. I, as President, will do this for the first time. But both Ukraine and I are doing this for the last time. I am initiating consultations in the framework of the Budapest Memorandum. The Minister of Foreign Affairs was commissioned to convene them. If they do not happen again or their results do not guarantee security for our country, Ukraine will have every right to believe that the Budapest Memorandum is not working and all the package decisions of 1994 are in doubt.

            Budapest Memo is what binded Ukraine to not pursuing Nuclear Weapons. There's another quote from a Ukr Def Minister or something around this time that is more direct, but this seems like what really caused the invasion once the border build up had been ongoing.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

            According to the three memoranda, Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia, and that they agreed to the following:

            Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
            Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
            Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
            Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
            Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
            Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.
            

            https://uawire.org/zelensky-ukraine-may-reconsider-its-nuclear-status

            this is from April 2021:

            Ukraine will consider arming itself with nuclear weapons if it does not become a member of the NATO military alliance, the Ukrainian ambassador to Germany said.

            "Either we are part of an alliance like NATO and contribute in this way to making Europe stronger ... or we are left with the other option, which is to arm ourselves," Ambassador Andriy Melnyk told Deutschlandfunk radio Thursday.

            Kyiv would then "perhaps also consider its nuclear status," he said. "How else can we guarantee our defense?"

            https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/ukraine-mulls-nuclear-arms-if-nato-membership-not-impending-envoy

          • emizeko [they/them]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Moon of Alabama mentions it here, says it was the week before the invasion that Zelensky was opening his mouth about nukes

            https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/02/disarming-ukraine-day-1.html

            Like me and many other analysts Mearsheimer did not expect that a Russian move into the Ukraine would happen. Why the Russian government finally decided to take that step is not clear to me. I believe that Zelensky's lose talk about acquiring nuclear weapons for the Ukraine was one of the decisive factors. Who told Zelensky to come up with that?

            another MoA post has the actual source, can't find it, but you got them in the other reply