String theory has never made a prediction that has come true and gets disproven each time we build a bigger particle accelerator and discover new particles. Like the theory can't even explain basic observations about particle physics and the universe. The String theorists just keep telling everyone that it will work out bro, trust us, give us more funding.

Like the only reason it hasen't been abandoned yet and is still weirdly popular is becuase of the perverse incentives in academics where it pays more to pursue this kind of groundbreaking nonsense than trying to advance the frontier of the established and boring Standard Model. And it's easy to be groundbreaking when you are just making shit up. Just think of the millions in research funding these charlatans have scammed from us. They have played us for absolute fools.

We need to round up all the String theorists and parade them through the streets with dunce caps, Cultural Revolution style. We need to do 70 hour struggle sessions against them until they pass out from exhaustion.

"Particles are actually tiny strings that wiggle" "There are 11 dimensions but you don't notice the extra ones cause their are too small" - Statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged.

  • puff [comrade/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    Sorry but as someone with a degree in physics this post and comments gave me a brain hemorrhage... Too much to even unpack.

    Edit: Tackling just one of these points, "it's useless and doesn't help anybody"; this is exactly what people said about electricity and nuclear physics when those were first discovered. Now electronics are essential and ubiquitous, and nuclear power is a solution (among others) to climate change. Just because you can't imagine a use for something yet, doesn't mean it will never be useful. "What is the use of an infant?" etc.

    • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      both of your examples involve phenomena that was observed systematically before a theory was formed to describe it consistently. string theory is a neat math trick to make your divergences go away in your feynman diagrams.

      • puff [comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Special Relativity (and by extension, General Relativity) is an example of a theory that was developed perfectly theoretically following Einstein's confusion over whether the speed of light was constant (as in Maxwell's Electromagnetism) or variable (as in Galilean Relativity). People had not systematically observed black holes and Lorentz transformations. So yes, a successful theoretical theory in physics can be developed mathematically. Deal with it.

        Edit: other examples from mathematics are imaginary numbers and non-Euclidean geometry, which had no practical application for decades or centuries. Now they are used in engineering and relativistic physics respectively.

        • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Defending string theory ain't it, Einstein's thought experiments were brilliant, but they were also based in a meaningful amount of engagement with the relevant physics that had already been discovered. String theory requires supersymmetry to not require 26 dimensions. 26 dimensional theory is not plausible for our universe. Supersymmetry is all but discredited in 2023. I certainly don't subscribe to it. You need supersymmetry to have a string theory in 10 dimensions that's possibly consistent with known physics, and you also need for it Witten's M-theory. You need to be living in a AntiDeSitter universe to have an AdS/CFT correspondence. Modern theoretical fundamental physics does not fucking work, period. Don't just say deal with it, like a child.

          Also, not a great take here. Imaginary numbers were developed in Italy in application to solving the cubic equation in general in a very geometric manner. Important sure, but following from very tangible existing knowledge. Non-Euclidean geometry, similarly, was almost a natural development when you consider that Euclid's parallel postulate had been considering extremely suspect and out of place for centuries. These ideas came from the limitations of the pre-existing applied work. Don't mythicalize science just because no one actually teaches the history of physics and mathematics.

          • puff [comrade/them]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Einstein’s thought experiments were brilliant, but they were also based in a meaningful amount of engagement with the relevant physics that had already been discovered

            You don't understand the origins of String Theory as well as you think you do if you seriously believe that it was not based on a meaningful amount of engagement with the relevant physics that had already been discovered.

            • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
              ·
              2 years ago

              The origins of string theory were a relatively contemporary reexploration of the Kaluza-Klein combination of the relativistic metric with hidden dimensions and electromagnetic theory. But the basic jumping off point of string theory from a QFT can be described as specifically introducing an extra label parameter in addition to the proper time in the formulation that raises time to operator status (as opposed to the more common methods of QFT that lower spatial dimensions to the level of time). An extra dimension for the integrals in your Feynman diagrams that make the infinities a lot easier to tame that pop as divergences in the "1D" theory (Feynman diagram lines in QFT vs Feynman diagram pants in string theories). I don't think that's a particularly good motivating point to develop a theory, and I would go so far as to say it's crass to compare that to Einstein's thought experiments in such a misleading way. Consider that perhaps the landscape of valid string theories that don't describe our universe is so vast because as far as good ideas for guiding a new theory goes, it turns out that that's not such a usefully constraining one. String theory is stupid because there does not exist any meaningful amount of evidence in the known quantum gravity regime that we can access, and nothing that it predicts that turns out to be very useful. Are you going to try to argue to me that I should still think supersymmetry is plausible???

    • plinky [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Kinda sorta, but you build theories on experimental mismatches (I.e. damn, that mercury conducts very well at low temperatures, how come?) and hope they predict something testable (like other weird fermions pairings/boson condensates).

      string theory hasn’t yet hit its predictions (or did it?). On the other hand, from outside pov, doing weird math on something like that or predicting lasers would look kinda similar to string theory (damn so those nerds doing math on matter states they couldn’t even make) so :shrug-outta-hecks:

      • puff [comrade/them]
        ·
        2 years ago

        string theory hasn’t yet hit its predictions (or did it?)

        It's not that string theory has failed in its predictions; there are no predictions because the theory isn't formulated yet. So many people misunderstand this. Give them a chance to actually discover the equations for the theory before you make comments about its predictions. We don't know what its predictions are yet.

          • puff [comrade/them]
            ·
            2 years ago

            I'll be honest, I don't really know what you mean. What is there to grift? PhD students studying string theory get paid starvation wages.

              • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
                ·
                2 years ago

                popular physics communication for the past 30 years have consisted of an absolutely ridiculous, quasi-religious hype train around string theory. if it were a good theory, it wouldn't take this long to formulate the equation based on the information that has been had. it's just not a good theory, and physicists aren't thinking particularly dialectically these days.

        • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Give them a chance to actually discover the equations for the theory before you make comments about its predictions. We don’t know what its predictions are yet.

          this is like suggesting that it took einstein 10 years to go from sr to gr because it was just too dang hard to get the coefficients right. string theorists can't find a string theory in the landscape that represents our universe because the core idea is so tautologically limited as to be rendered practically useless. it's a math trick, and little more.

          • puff [comrade/them]
            ·
            2 years ago

            string theorists can’t find a string theory in the landscape that represents our universe because the core idea is so tautologically limited as to be rendered practically useless

            Very arrogant to say this. The physics that Einstein had to deal with was a lot easier. The physics that Newton before him had to deal with was easier still. Things are getting harder to harder in all areas of science and that is what gives the impression of stagnation. String research may or may not give a viable theory. We won't know until either it does, or something else takes its place. Either way, it and other models have to be researched.

            • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
              ·
              2 years ago

              or perhaps academia under capitalism is increasingly incapable of organizing itself productively towards meaningful discovery. i'm not saying no one should research it, but it is extremely overhyped, has done damage to the communication of science in general, and it has failed to ever deliver on any of the promises of its theoretical program. it's not arrogant to demand that the most communicated theory of physics in the modern age, that has been given unlimited good press by science communicators, actually be capable of being a theory of our universe and not a neat tool for describing weird atomic systems.

              • puff [comrade/them]
                ·
                edit-2
                2 years ago

                the most communicated theory of physics in the modern age, that has been given unlimited good press by science communicators

                Okay so not actually the fault of string theorists then, but a capitalist media around science communication wherein science communicators exacerbate results for profit. Thanks for acknowledging that. But okay, keep blaming poor PhD students trying to do what they love. Fuck them, I guess.

                • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  Are you the poor PhD student, am I picking on your choice of field that's making you be this dense about it?

                  • puff [comrade/them]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    Lol no I left academia because of the debt and starvation wages. I'm not even a 'believer' in string theory, so to speak. I'm agnostic. As I said earlier, it may or may not yield results, but neither you nor I know either way.

                  • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    you're trapped in the idealism pit comrade, there's nothing of value to being able to do string theory unless you're using to it to study black holes or atomic structures.

                • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  The fault of the actual string theorists that became those science communicators? Yes. Those ones

                  • puff [comrade/them]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    The fault of the actual string theorists that became those science communicators? Yes. Those ones

                    Mhm, all two of them.

                    • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
                      ·
                      2 years ago

                      yeah, just most of the major physics communicators of the last 30 years other than like Neil Degrasse Tyson. the brian greene's and michio kaku's broke physics communication to the public, and it's been fucked since.

                      • puff [comrade/them]
                        ·
                        2 years ago

                        I love that I said "all two of them" and then you literally named only two lmfao

                        • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
                          ·
                          edit-2
                          2 years ago

                          they were also doing irreparable damage to public understanding of the field, we both understand there were more string theory apologists than those, sorry you didn't get a researched list of all the string theorists that have said dumb shit about their theory in public. Ed Witten counts for this, any time one of these numbnuts gives an interview it counts. james sylvester gates counts. any string theorist with a public audience has used it to advance their own bullshit

                          • puff [comrade/them]
                            ·
                            2 years ago

                            If you're so concerned about public damage in science your efforts are wasted on Ed fucking Witten (nobody knows who he is outside a niche circle) compared to say Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and Jeff Bezos whose tech bro rocket man AI antics are about a trillion times more damaging.

                            • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
                              ·
                              2 years ago

                              I'm not really concerned about it, but i also didn't roll into this post calling people essentially illiterates. of course billionaire tech psychos are a trillion times more damaging. i'm just not going to call people illiterates for agreeing that string theory is silly. i'll defend them because it is silly, it's not even wrong.