• Roody15@reddthat.com
    ·
    1 year ago

    Where is the off ramp here? Despite billions and constant propaganda Russia is not going to lose this war on the battlefield.

    How much money and how many people are we going to just send to their deaths just because prolonging the conflict weakens an adversary to US.

    It’s really sad :(

    • jackmarxist [any]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Russia will lose any day now. Their army has been routed and they're constantly fleeing the lines. Hundreds of thousands of Russians are dead or zero-summed while Ukraine has no casualties. Ukraine is marching towards Moscow and this war will end with Putin Putler shooting himself in the head! Slava Ukraini!

      Inb4 anyone calls me a tankie for supporting Biden sending tanks to Ukraine.

    • YaaAsantewaa [love/loves, comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      We were in Iraq for 20 years despite it being so unpopular and illegal

      The off ramp is whenever the defense contractors start losing money and it's not profitable anymore

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
      ·
      1 year ago

      Ya know there's a country called Ukraine that's involved in this, right? They are people defending their country and they're going to do that with or without US support. And Ukraine will win in the end. Russia doesn't have enough to successfully occupy Ukraine against an organized resistance which is where things could go without military aid from the west.

      While a resistance would ultimately be successful, it would take a decade or more. And it's likely a Russian occupation of Ukraine would involve genocide. Do you want that?

      Sending military aid isn't about trying to change the outcome of the war. Russia's defeat is inevitable. The military aid is about helping Ukraine defeat Russia sooner, without the need for a prolonged resistance campaign, and that reduces the loss of life.

      • ToxicDivinity [comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        When you say that Ukraine will defeat Russia do you mean Ukraine will occupy the Donbass and impose a government on them that those people don't want?

        You do know that there's a region called Donbass that is involved in this right? And they've been fighting for their lives since 2014. Why don't you care about those people?

        • Harrison [He/Him]@ttrpg.network
          ·
          1 year ago

          It seems unlikely that the people of Donbass do want to be a part of Russia now that they've had a taste of occupation.

          Being conscripted, given third rate equipment or no equipment at all and being send to die is not generally an endearing act.

          • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Being conscripted, given third rate equipment or no equipment at all and being send to die is not generally an endearing act.

            This is what Ukraine's coup government has been doing for over a year at this point.

            • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
              ·
              1 year ago

              You don't get to instigate a rebellion using your own intelligence and military assets, and then invade your neighbor and claim that you never did, that's just bullshit.

              This entire conflict was instigated by Russia.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                It's very hard to invent a movement in another country. Were they backed by Russia from the outset? Obviously, but they had real reasons to be upset with what the new administration was doing. This is a little like dismissing the people who disagree with you as bots, it lets you avoid needing to consider that some people might have good reason for opposing your favored side.

                • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Yes, absolutely it was. There have been many books and publications featuring interviews and even video footage of Russian soldiers from the outset of the war. Here's an interview:

                  https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/i-was-a-pro-russian-separatist-fighter-in-ukraine/374411/

                  And Russia seized crimea right afterwards. Coincidence? Nope.

                  And let's not forget how they"separatists" somehow were operating Russian military air defense systems.

                  Igor Girkin was found responsible for shooting down MH17 by a Dutch cour.

                  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63637625

                  ... But he was a Russian commander who controlled the so-called Donetsk People's Republic armed forces.

                  Russian authorities on Friday detained Igor Girkin, a former Russian commander in Ukraine and prominent war blogger, reportedly on charges of promoting extremism — marking the first time Moscow has taken action against a fervent supporter of the war in Ukraine but one who voiced loud criticism of Russian leaders and their often botched military strategy.

                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/21/russia-arrests-igor-girkin-ex-security-officer-who-led-operations-ukraine/

                  "Girkin, who is also known by his nom de guerre Igor Strelkov, is an ex-officer of the Federal Security Service, or FSB. He played a role in Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014 and then served as a commander in Russian-controlled areas of Donbas in eastern Ukraine, where he helped foment a separatist war and was accused of extrajudicial killings."

                  Russia used their guys to instigate a rebellion. If you think all rebellions are free from outside influences, you are sorely mistaken and shows complete naivete regarding the current conflict.

                  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    I just said they were Russian backed from the outset, but that does not mean Russia invented the sentiment wholecloth.

    • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
      ·
      1 year ago

      Why won't Russia stop the war?

      Why did Vladimir Putin claim that Ukraine isn't a country?

      Why does Russia purchase Iranian suicide drones, and launch drone and cruise missile attacks on Ukrainian cities every week?

      Why do Russians want to kill all Ukrainians when they were considered brothers 2 years ago?