The cotton workers and the train workers should seize the means of production via their democracy. If they don't have a democracy, they should perform a revolution to establish one.
Referring to a revolution by the people as authoritarian is like saying the oppression of a king is freedom. It doesn't make sense under closer observation. Using force to achieve freedom does not invalidate that freedom. Once the revolution has been won, the people rule themselves. Any authority over them is a temporary construct of their own making that can be removed and replaced.
I think hate speech, threatening violence against another person based on inherent characteristics or for any reason really, should not be allowed. Nor should people be allowed to storm the capital to stop the peaceful transfer of power. Other than that though I think people deserve free speech and freedom of assembly even if I disagree with the speech or reason for assembly. Nazis tend to say a lot of hate speech and storm the capital so it isn't really necessary or good to make an exception for them specifically.
I'm not interested in proactively suppressing Nazis, as that would make us no different than them. To put it another way, I'm not interested in rounding people up solely based on their political views. I am for punishing Nazi's for their hate speech and insurrection. I think there should be consequences for actions and hate speech. I am also for educating people and getting Fox News off the air.
The authority vested in democratic leaders is ephemeral enough that it is the only desirable form of authority. At the end of the day, it's the people who rule, not their leaders. By comparison the authority that dictators wield is very enduring and hard to get rid of. They make every decision and the dictators' egos are what everyone around them has to be loyal to.
I'm not interested in proactively suppressing Nazis, as that would make us no different than them.
No, the people who suppressed nazi sympathizers during ww2 are not the same as people committing the holocaust. Nazis weren't bad just because they targeted their political enemies. I would recommend reading blackshirts and reds and then the economics and class structure of german fascism.
The authority vested in democratic leaders is ephemeral enough that it is the only desirable form of authority. At the end of the day, it's the people who rule, not their leaders.
All these "authoritarian" socialist societies had democracies. They are more democratic than any western democracy. Look at how Cuba's family code was drafted before it passed by referendum.
No, the people who suppressed nazi sympathizers during ww2 are not the same as people committing the holocaust.
The Allies were fighting a war against the Axis powers. While the Nazis rounded up civilians for all kind of reasons, including political views.
We aren't in a civil war in America right now. There is no basis to take action against modern fascists outside of the numerous acts of domestic terrorism they commit. Rounding up fascists solely based on their political views make us like the Nazis and is unbecoming of any free society.
All these “authoritarian” socialist societies had democracies.
Not the USSR, China, or North Korea which is what I was referring to by authoritarian communists.
We aren't in a civil war in America right now. There is no basis to take action against modern fascists outside of the numerous acts of domestic terrorism they commit. Rounding up fascists solely based on their political views make us like the Nazis and is unbecoming of any free society.
People who are trying to start a pogrom on trans people, Jewish people, etc should be prosecuted actually, regardless of whether they're actually successful. You can't wait for the nazis to win before you crush them, by that point it will be too late.
Not the USSR, China, or North Korea which is what I was referring to by authoritarian communists.
What about these countries governments are different structurally from Cuba's government?
People who are trying to start a pogrom on trans people, Jewish people, etc should be prosecuted actually, regardless of whether they’re actually successful. You can’t wait for the nazis to win before you crush them, by that point it will be too late.
Two wrongs don't make a right. If we go that route we are going to become the thing we are trying to prevent.
What about these countries governments are different structurally from Cuba’s government?
Rather than a difference in government structure, I would point to a difference in leadership. I personally believe Castro really did believe in socialism and had the best interests of the Cuban people at heart. As great as that is, a system of government that depends on the benevolence of its leaders is not one I want to live under.
Two wrongs don't make a right. If we go that route we are going to become the thing we are trying to prevent.
No, we will become people who suppress nazis, which is not the same as being a nazi. For an allegory, killing a serial killer in self defense (but before he actually kills you, gasp) does not make you a serial killer.
Rather than a difference in government structure, I would point to a difference in leadership. I personally believe Castro really did believe in socialism and had the best interests of the Cuban people at heart. As great as that is, a system of government that depends on the benevolence of its leaders is not one I want to live under.
So why don't you believe any of the other leaders believed in socialism?
Also this is great man theory taken to an extreme.
Also I dont know how you can look at any of their government structures and claim that the people were reliant on the benevolence of the leadership.
For an allegory, killing a serial killer in self defense (but before he actually kills you, gasp) does not make you a serial killer.
While this is a true statement it does not follow that preventive actions against people who hold fascist views, but do not act on them, is anyway different what the Nazis did to people.
So why don’t you believe any of the other leaders believed in socialism?
The USSR Politburo only cared about itself. Same with the CCP and the Kim family. These are extractive institutions that are only self serving. They are not beholden to anyone so they have no incentive to care what the people want.
Also this is great man theory taken to an extreme.
He didn't get the right to lead from inherently being a great man. He got it by leading his people in a revolution against a dictator. His policies benefited enough people so they continued support him. Castro actions were based on his personal moral compass. The fact Cuba didn't become like North Korea is great. If Cubans aren't giving meaningful mechanisms for dissent going forward, they will have little recourse to prevent their government from becoming like the Kim regime.
While this is a true statement it does not follow that preventive actions against people who hold fascist views, but do not act on them, is anyway different what the Nazis did to people.
You know the nazis just killed people on the scale of millions for being Jewish or gay or disabled right? It is not equivalent to suppress nazi rallies and arrest nazi leadership, because they can always stop being nazis, or learn to shut the fuck up about it.
The USSR Politburo only cared about itself. Same with the CCP and the Kim family. These are extractive institutions that are only self serving. They are not beholden to anyone so they have no incentive to care what the people want.
These are just claims. If the USSR politburo cared only for itself, why give regional and ethnic autonomy? Why increase standards of living and give women more rights?
If the CPC cared only about itself why didn't it just do what the KMT was doing prior to their victory?
Kim was a revolutionary fighting the Japanese. He could have joined the nationalists where self enrichment was more likely if he won. Also, the DPRK implemented even more directly democratic programs than other socialist States. Unions and the state jointly oversaw all medium and large production lines, with supervision from the women's league among others.
He didn't get the right to lead from inherently being a great man.
Great man theory isn't this. Great man theory is analyzing history from the top down, where the personalities of leadership is overly emphasized over structures of power.
The fact Cuba didn't become like North Korea is great. If Cubans aren't giving meaningful mechanisms for dissent going forward, they will have little recourse to prevent their government from becoming like the Kim regime.
Yes, I'm glad the US didn't brutally occupy half of Cuba and then kill twenty percent of Cuba when the other half fought to liberate their country.
You know Cubans are free to criticize their government right? The current president literally walked the streets and talked to protestors recently. Could you imagine a US president going to Minneapolis and talking to BLM protestors in the street?
It seems like a lot of these arguments are mostly directed at straw men. I don't claim to be taking the positions you seem to think I'm taking.
These are just claims. If the USSR politburo cared only for itself, why give regional and ethnic autonomy? Why increase standards of living and give women more rights?
Results may vary. Minority groups where the first to die in wars and in starvation.
Could you imagine a US president going to Minneapolis and talking to BLM protestors in the street?
The cotton workers and the train workers should seize the means of production via their democracy. If they don't have a democracy, they should perform a revolution to establish one.
Referring to a revolution by the people as authoritarian is like saying the oppression of a king is freedom. It doesn't make sense under closer observation. Using force to achieve freedom does not invalidate that freedom. Once the revolution has been won, the people rule themselves. Any authority over them is a temporary construct of their own making that can be removed and replaced.
I completely agree, do you see why I linked it in response to the use of authoritarian?
Not really, sorry. It's legit going over my head. =(
Authority isn't necessarily bad. For example, suppressing the free speech and ability to congregate for nazis is good.
I think hate speech, threatening violence against another person based on inherent characteristics or for any reason really, should not be allowed. Nor should people be allowed to storm the capital to stop the peaceful transfer of power. Other than that though I think people deserve free speech and freedom of assembly even if I disagree with the speech or reason for assembly. Nazis tend to say a lot of hate speech and storm the capital so it isn't really necessary or good to make an exception for them specifically.
I'm not interested in proactively suppressing Nazis, as that would make us no different than them. To put it another way, I'm not interested in rounding people up solely based on their political views. I am for punishing Nazi's for their hate speech and insurrection. I think there should be consequences for actions and hate speech. I am also for educating people and getting Fox News off the air.
The authority vested in democratic leaders is ephemeral enough that it is the only desirable form of authority. At the end of the day, it's the people who rule, not their leaders. By comparison the authority that dictators wield is very enduring and hard to get rid of. They make every decision and the dictators' egos are what everyone around them has to be loyal to.
No, the people who suppressed nazi sympathizers during ww2 are not the same as people committing the holocaust. Nazis weren't bad just because they targeted their political enemies. I would recommend reading blackshirts and reds and then the economics and class structure of german fascism.
All these "authoritarian" socialist societies had democracies. They are more democratic than any western democracy. Look at how Cuba's family code was drafted before it passed by referendum.
The Allies were fighting a war against the Axis powers. While the Nazis rounded up civilians for all kind of reasons, including political views.
We aren't in a civil war in America right now. There is no basis to take action against modern fascists outside of the numerous acts of domestic terrorism they commit. Rounding up fascists solely based on their political views make us like the Nazis and is unbecoming of any free society.
Not the USSR, China, or North Korea which is what I was referring to by authoritarian communists.
People who are trying to start a pogrom on trans people, Jewish people, etc should be prosecuted actually, regardless of whether they're actually successful. You can't wait for the nazis to win before you crush them, by that point it will be too late.
What about these countries governments are different structurally from Cuba's government?
Two wrongs don't make a right. If we go that route we are going to become the thing we are trying to prevent.
Rather than a difference in government structure, I would point to a difference in leadership. I personally believe Castro really did believe in socialism and had the best interests of the Cuban people at heart. As great as that is, a system of government that depends on the benevolence of its leaders is not one I want to live under.
No, we will become people who suppress nazis, which is not the same as being a nazi. For an allegory, killing a serial killer in self defense (but before he actually kills you, gasp) does not make you a serial killer.
So why don't you believe any of the other leaders believed in socialism?
Also this is great man theory taken to an extreme.
Also I dont know how you can look at any of their government structures and claim that the people were reliant on the benevolence of the leadership.
While this is a true statement it does not follow that preventive actions against people who hold fascist views, but do not act on them, is anyway different what the Nazis did to people.
The USSR Politburo only cared about itself. Same with the CCP and the Kim family. These are extractive institutions that are only self serving. They are not beholden to anyone so they have no incentive to care what the people want.
He didn't get the right to lead from inherently being a great man. He got it by leading his people in a revolution against a dictator. His policies benefited enough people so they continued support him. Castro actions were based on his personal moral compass. The fact Cuba didn't become like North Korea is great. If Cubans aren't giving meaningful mechanisms for dissent going forward, they will have little recourse to prevent their government from becoming like the Kim regime.
You know the nazis just killed people on the scale of millions for being Jewish or gay or disabled right? It is not equivalent to suppress nazi rallies and arrest nazi leadership, because they can always stop being nazis, or learn to shut the fuck up about it.
These are just claims. If the USSR politburo cared only for itself, why give regional and ethnic autonomy? Why increase standards of living and give women more rights?
If the CPC cared only about itself why didn't it just do what the KMT was doing prior to their victory?
Kim was a revolutionary fighting the Japanese. He could have joined the nationalists where self enrichment was more likely if he won. Also, the DPRK implemented even more directly democratic programs than other socialist States. Unions and the state jointly oversaw all medium and large production lines, with supervision from the women's league among others.
Great man theory isn't this. Great man theory is analyzing history from the top down, where the personalities of leadership is overly emphasized over structures of power.
Yes, I'm glad the US didn't brutally occupy half of Cuba and then kill twenty percent of Cuba when the other half fought to liberate their country.
You know Cubans are free to criticize their government right? The current president literally walked the streets and talked to protestors recently. Could you imagine a US president going to Minneapolis and talking to BLM protestors in the street?
I know what the Nazis did thanks.
It seems like a lot of these arguments are mostly directed at straw men. I don't claim to be taking the positions you seem to think I'm taking.
Results may vary. Minority groups where the first to die in wars and in starvation.
Yes.
You sure don't fucking act like it if your comparing what they did to suppressing fascism.
During the protests and not absolutely surrounded by gun wielding guards.