This. And Fascism is always hard to talk about because the actual ideology is more about doing whatever it takes to take and hold power than any really consistent sent of beliefs or theories. As much as I hate to say it, IDing fascism is as much of a vibe as anything. Umberto Eco's "Ur-Fascism" is the best quick and dirty means of deciding what is and isn't fashy that I know of.
the actual ideology is more about doing whatever it takes to take and hold power than any really consistent sent of beliefs or theories.
That would mean it isn't an ideology, and rather is only political tactics that could be employed by Marxists and liberals. But fascism is an ideology. It's a political movement just like communism and liberalism, and just like those it finds its origin in European intellectual tradition. And it most definitely has a consistent set of beliefs.
I'm going to link my comment from the mega where I recommend a few works about fascism, because I've been reading and writing about fascism all day and wanna take a break now. But if you want to talk about this more I'll respond to you tomorrow :)
I think that simplifies fascism. I want to take and hold power and I want my political allies to do the same. I don't however, believe in a mythic past about my nation or skin color or in blaming my economic situation on some "other".
Yes you're correct, and on the second part, OP wasn't saying the Founding Fathers created the NSDAP, he was just calling them racist — hyperbole, in a way.
Like yeah, the founding fathers were bad, but I don't need to muddy the ideological waters any more than they already are. I feel like NTs think along lines of "this bad thing is bad, and this bad thing is also bad, so they're the same bad thing".
Yes, fascism as an ideology was synthesised by Mussolini and the first fascist party was created in 1919.
This. And Fascism is always hard to talk about because the actual ideology is more about doing whatever it takes to take and hold power than any really consistent sent of beliefs or theories. As much as I hate to say it, IDing fascism is as much of a vibe as anything. Umberto Eco's "Ur-Fascism" is the best quick and dirty means of deciding what is and isn't fashy that I know of.
That would mean it isn't an ideology, and rather is only political tactics that could be employed by Marxists and liberals. But fascism is an ideology. It's a political movement just like communism and liberalism, and just like those it finds its origin in European intellectual tradition. And it most definitely has a consistent set of beliefs.
I'm going to link my comment from the mega where I recommend a few works about fascism, because I've been reading and writing about fascism all day and wanna take a break now. But if you want to talk about this more I'll respond to you tomorrow :)
I think that simplifies fascism. I want to take and hold power and I want my political allies to do the same. I don't however, believe in a mythic past about my nation or skin color or in blaming my economic situation on some "other".
Yes I'm wrong or yes I'm correct in my view? Because it sounds like you're saying what I'm saying, that fascism coalesced in the early 20th century.
Therefore, by definition, the United States founders couldn't be the first nazi party...
Yes you're correct, and on the second part, OP wasn't saying the Founding Fathers created the NSDAP, he was just calling them racist — hyperbole, in a way.
Sometimes hyperbole offends my neurodivergent tendency to care about definitions and clarity
Yeah same, will never understand why NTs don't just say what they mean directly
Like yeah, the founding fathers were bad, but I don't need to muddy the ideological waters any more than they already are. I feel like NTs think along lines of "this bad thing is bad, and this bad thing is also bad, so they're the same bad thing".