If they were serious about the so-called "peace talks" they would have invited Russia. You don't hold "peace talks" with only one party, that is complete and utter nonsense. What they mean when they say "negotiations" is they want Russia to just surrender and accept all of Kiev's insane demands. Obviously that is a non-starter and they know it, so the only logical conclusion is that they do not want to talk in earnest yet. So this conflict will go on until they do.
If they were serious about the so-called “peace talks” they would have invited Russia.
Not sabotaging Minsk agreement would be also pretty cool.
West destroyed their own credibility and are now enraged that nobody trust them anymore.
Sure there always is, but it must include NATO fucking off in a way that will be realistically kept. Since both Ukraine and their western controllers proven completely untrustworthy, it must be basically to create the situation in which there will be impossible for them to break the deal, or the one where breaking the deal from them is expected and included in calculations.
They do this sort of stunt to pretend they care about "diplomacy." After all, look, they're holding peace talks. They care about peace. and Russia didn't even show up! (Because they weren't invited.) Clearly the west values peace and Russia hates peace, which means there can be no negotiation with Russia and the war must continue.
You don’t hold “peace talks” with only one party.
The Sudatenland Crisis and Munich Agreement would like a word please.
That Russia give the Donbass and Crimea to Ukraine so Ukraine can ethnically cleanse them. That Russia pay reparations and have its current government put on trial. Sorry but none of that is ever going to happen, we'll sooner see nuclear armageddon than any of that.
Any "peace plan" that starts with "Russia must pull its troops out of all of what Ukraine considers theirs" is not a serious proposal, it is a joke. You may as well ask the US to give Texas back to Mexico. Any serious negotiation must acknowledge current territorial realities.
Crimea returning to Ukraine. That's never going to happen
That is insane!? I will also steal your car and your house and just return you the house and will keep the car in our "peace" negotiations. ✌️
How is that even a comparison? The majority of people in Crimea do not want to be part of Ukraine, even if you exclude the referendum, opinion polls and even western journalist pieces admit this.
And if you want to go down to the realpolitik reasons, there is no way that Russia would ever give up Crimea and access to the naval and port assets. From a negotiation stand point it's a non starter.
Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join the Russian Federation back in 2014.
Uh, that's how war works. I wish libs would fucking figuring this out already. If one country dominates another, the losing country makes concessions for peace. That's how it works. That's how it has always worked. This mind virus that peace means total subjugation of Russia or completely annulling Russia's position on the matter is just completely disassociated from all of human reality.
Subjugation of Russia!? It's just restoring the original territory nobody is asking Russia to give part of his territory. And I wouldn't call what has Russian have done until now a domination....
I see now based on the other comments that the people of Crimea might have wanted to be Russian and we could see about that, that makes sense. Of course I feel this needs a proper polling with a somehow neutral third party as observer to make sure nobody is forcing nobody to vote in one direction or the other.
My god. Have you ever studied war? What you're describing is not war. Do you know what happened when the US defeated Japan in war? Japan asked for some way to manage their internal affairs more appropriately for their culture and the US fucking nuked hundreds of thousands of civilians. War negotiations are not things that are subject to 3rd party neutral polling (as though such a thing even exists), they are ways to end conflict by giving the aggressor concessions in exchange for stopping their aggression.
I wasn't talking about waw I was talking about the Crimea situation independent of war. The war isn't about Crimea right now, that's is clear, it's part of it but not the main focus. I was specifically about how to solve in a way that everybody agrees on the results on the decision for the people from Crimea of which country they want to be part from.
It’s either that or Russia keeping far more. Why would the winner in a war agree to hand over territory and not the country that lost?
That situation doesn't happen. If there is a winner there is no peace talks, no agreement needed.
In any case we are not in that situation right now.
Not OP and I don't agree with other poster nor I think anyone's demands are "insane", everyone just has their interests.
I might be wrong, but I think the main issue Russia has is Ukraine joining NATO and general NATO expansion.
We know what happened when USSR tried to put missiles on US border and Russia doesn't want NATO on it's border.
This will go on until either there is a way for Ukraine not to be in NATO or until Russia demise, since looks like they percive NATO on their undefendable border as serious threat.
And if you look at history of attacks on Russia from that direction and casualties in those wars, fear is understandable.
Adding to all of it that in ten years, because of old population Russia would not have soldiers for war, so they had to push it now.
Or maybe they are all just some evil bastards and want everyone to feel like shit.
Ukraine demand to get back all lost territories and it include Crimea. It is the first thing they always say when others are proposing mediation. They are losing the war and their bottom line is basically demand not only unconditional withdrawal of the enemy but also the territorial gains on them. This is a position that was never before seriously proposed in history outside of jokes - it's completely batshit insane. Everyone know that, hence every potential mediatior like China backing off after hearing that.
Hell even Ukraine know that, they are using it not as the serious proposition - they are saying it not to Russia or China or UN or whomever else, they are saying it to USA as a sign the war will be continued.
I learned not belive words, people use words just to make some random excuse for their behavior. and those can be easily changed.
Actions and reality is more important, fake demands are part of negotiations.
The Ukraine's (and the west's) demands are utterly insane, but others have addressed that better. Just gonna nitpick that the USSR only put missiles in Cuba as a response to the US having stationed missiles in Turkey, right on the Soviet's doorstep. It should be called the 'Turkish Missile Crisis' or the 'NATO Missile Crisis' - it's always the US starting this shit and then, like an abusive partner, gaslighting the world into accepting their narrative, painting themselves as the victim when they're the aggressor.
"until Russia demise"
That would mean the end of the world. Russia has the world's largest nuclear arsenal and a clearly stated doctrine of use of nuclear weapons in case of existential threat to the state.
This will only end one way and that is with Ukraine not in NATO. Either because the West finally sees reason, or because Ukraine has ceased to exist, or the world has ceased to exist.
