Fuck do you mean, Doug, are you denying all the apologia, fascism, colonialism, racism, sexism, ablism, and homophobia that occurred? And I wasn't there but I sure hope they gave the liberals of your instance hell for their imperialist views.
They came in with broad sweeping statements and assumptions paired with judgements and wishes of harm based in nothing but their own minds from what I could see.
There was also no shortage of an amplification of the message in this comic, all Western media is lying about everything all the time kinda thing. In the interest of full disclosure that's very likely an exaggeration itself, but I'd wager closer to the truth than what's here.
I'm not denying any of that happened any more than you're denying what went down on my home instance. I wasn't there
Not all western media is lying. There are a few okay podcasts, the Intercept, the Guardian is okay sometimes. Uhh... I can't think of any others off the top of my head right now. Pretty much all Western government organizations and individuals related to foreign policy are shit, I'm afraid. Like a couple of Irish politicians and a smattering of minority party people across the EU are the only real exception.
I haven't consumed any Western corporate media content (that wasn't being dunked on) in years. I'm still way too aware of what's going on in the world and wish I knew less, tbh.
Well done dropping the part where I explained that's likely an exaggeration. The source is out in the open. You're as free to look on my home instance as I am to look at your modlog.
I think they'd be as honest as their enemy is about them. Why would I assume that it's only one side lying about the other?
Beyond that the best lies are rooted in truth. Honesty happens with enough frequency to make the lies credible.
Then there's also the openness to influence I keep with people all over the world. Looking at varying points of view is so often the path to truth.
You're as free to look on my home instance as I am to look at your modlog.
Yeah nah i've seen how the imperialist bigoted fuckers from your instance behaved on here so I am safe to assume that they acted as such on home turf. They fully deserved any hate they got.
I think they'd be as honest as their enemy is about them. Why would I assume that it's only one side lying about the other?
So you deny that the combined western powers headed by america are a uniquely evil white-supremacist entity that has brought terror and misery to the people of our world?
Yeah you're free to judge us as rude or whatever for being hateful to imperialist reactionaries, that just makes you an apologist for the latter.
Specifically here.
Which countries that currently exist have legacies that are as evil, barbaric, white supremacist, genocidal, and settler-colonial as america and its allies?
inb4 "WHAT ABOUT MUH CHINA!!! MUH RUSSIA!!!!"
Neither was founded in the genocide of an entire nation's worth of indigenous peoples, sorry.
So calling someone an ass is only ok if they were being an ass to a decent person? How far do I need to dig into someone's post history before I can call someone being an ass to them an ass?
Which countries that currently exist have legacies that are as evil
(I cut the rest off as it wasn't in the original dispute)
England comes to mind. Japan has had some historic shit I'm aware of. I can't say whether China has or not because I've not dug into their history. Thanks for making decisions for me though I guess.
Neither was founded in the genocide of an entire nation's worth of indigenous peoples, sorry.
For one, we don't really know how China was founded, do we? As for Russia we'd really need to get down into Mongols and Kievan Rus and plenty of other things to make that determination.
That aside, is something founded in evil only capable of evil and something founded in good only of good? Can China and Russia do bad? Are they capable of as much evil as America?
no, they don't have control of the global financial system and they don't coup and murder every antagonistic government that pops up around the globe. without the power to sanction and without the will to casually destroy entire populations, they aren't capable of anywhere near the same level of evil.
So calling someone an ass is only ok if they were being an ass to a decent person? How far do I need to dig into someone's post history before I can call someone being an ass to them an ass?
A: "I firmly believe that NATO is a good thing for the world."
B: "Shut the fuck up you imperialist piece of shit."
: "ASKSHAUSDLASFDLASLDFALSDFLASLDFLASLFLLY YOU SHOULDNT BE AN ASS TO IMPERIALISTS BCUZ ADVOCATING FOR FASCISM IS OK WHEN YOU DONT USE LE INDECENT SWEAR WORDS!!!" (you)
Idgaf what you call people, you are an imperialist piece of shit either way.
England comes to mind. Japan has had some historic shit I'm aware of. (I cut the rest of your comment off because this response would make me look like a dumbass racist apologist otherwise lol)
Yes, England and Japan are both racist allies of america.
For one, we don't really know how China was founded, do we? As for Russia we'd really need to get down into Mongols and Kievan Rus and plenty of other things to make that determination.
"AKSHUASDLFALSDFLASDLFASYDFALSDFLASDLFALSDFLASDF;LKAJSDFLKJASDLFKASLLLY WHATABOUT CHINA AND RUSSIA ARE LITERALLY AS BAD AS AMERICA BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THESE AXES FROM THE VIKING AGE...!!!"
The current nations which have the continuity of "China" and "Russia" didn't invade their own lands, genocide the civilizations who were living there already, and establish a white-supremacist capitalist global order using slave labor.
That aside, is something founded in evil only capable of evil and something founded in good only of good? Can China and Russia do bad? Are they capable of as much evil as America?
"ACKSHUALLLLLLYYYYY WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF GOOD AND EVIL, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THE GREAT PHILOSOPHY???"
I dont see how this hypothetical masturbation of the intellect is relevant to america and its allies having a historical record of perpetrating and supporting white supremacist genocides and a global system of capitalist exploitation for their interests while china and russia dont. america is fundamentally a racist, imperialist, genocidal country because the very idea of america itself is founded on the notion of white supremacy and thus the invasion of foreign lands with the former as justification for slaughtering everyone there and ruining the environment for ones personal enrichment. America literally means nothing but misery and despair for the vast majority of people on earth, everyone fucking hates it, including the remnants of the indigenous people who it genocided upon its founding. And it can mean nothing more because its like saying nazi fucking germany is "capable of good", no it isnt, its a fascist state that was rightfully destroyed.
Idgaf what you call people, you are an imperialist piece of shit either way.
Based on what? Specifically. What imperialistic behavior have I exhibited, where, and how was it such? You are under no obligation to answer any of that of course, but without specifics I'm forced to assume you're just resorting to name calling because you don't like my opinions.
Yes, England and Japan are both racist allies of america.
So it's not unique, like I said.
The current nations which...
Where are you drawing the line for current. China has existed since well into BCE dates, and Russia since around the 18th century by the same calendar in use here.
I dont see how this hypothetical masturbation of the intellect is relevant to america and its allies having a historical record of perpetrating and supporting white supremacist genocides and a global system of capitalist exploitation for their interests
It's directly relevant to the statement that "Neither was founded in the genocide of an entire nation's worth of indigenous peoples". If we're being pedantic it's also several nations worth, but the quote is your words. If a thing is not bound by its origins then the statement was most likely made to provoke emotional response. It seems likely that you assumed I either didn't know or didn't care about said genocide. Both are wrong. More likely, however, is that it's a set up for how bad the US is. Incredibly bad, yeah. But does the starting state determine everything or is it just one step in a road? Are bad things tallied or averaged? Surely that needs to be considered if we're to weigh a country as young as the US against one as old as China.
while china and russia dont
based on what? Leaving western media out of it I have been privy to first hand accounts of life in both and that's a mighty claim you're making.
america is fundamentally a racist, imperialist, genocidal country because the very idea of america itself is founded on the notion of white supremacy and thus the invasion of foreign lands with the former as justification for slaughtering everyone there and ruining the environment for ones personal enrichment.
and we're back to founding. are you your parents? Yes, America is fucked and has been for its whole run. Is it beyond fixing? What if your grand parents were racist imperialist pieces of shit? Are you then beyond the possiblity for anything good?
America literally means nothing but misery and despair for the vast majority of people on earth
That's bold. I bet a lot of people don't think about it at all in their day to day lives.
everyone fucking hates it
provably false. I know several immigrants who love it here. I can't understand why, but it changes nothing.
including the remnants of the indigenous people who it genocided upon its founding
Also provably false. I know several people who had families here before Europeans came over who think it needs a lot of work and needs to do a whole hell of a lot better, but they would not say they hate it.
And it can mean nothing more because its like saying nazi fucking germany is “capable of good”, no it isnt, its a fascist state that was rightfully destroyed.
How was it destroyed in a way that America seemingly can't be?
So far your whole spiel sounds an awful lot like "America bad, China good, fuck you if you disagree". I can only agree with one part of that.
It takes a long time for someone to deprogram all of the propaganda they have accumulated throughout their life, especially when it came from the most sophisticated propaganda machine in human history.
If you truly are a potential ally against fascism, then I hope one day you are curious enough to go out and read some things outside your comfort zone and see whether or not they make sense to you.
Me: You guys acted more aggressive in my instance than this comic portrays
You: Both sides. Concern troll....
Posted an example elsewhere. Someone being a far bigger piece of shit doesn't mean you are incapable of being kinda crappy yourself. We're very far from anything resembling a both sides thing here
The one example you posted elsewhere (that I can find in your posts, you still won't like or make it clear for others) is this comment which is a bit ranty and online for my personal tastes, but I don't have any problem with the content of.
More importantly though, cherry picking the most (ironically) all caps reply you got here is not the same as providing evidence of Hexbear users "acting much more aggressively in my instance". So you still haven't provided anything to back up the claim you've made all over this thread. So yeah, plenty of people here will rightly doubt your sincerity.
I didn't link anything specifically for two reasons. For one, I didn't feel obligated to go sifting through a post I didn't especially enjoy the first time. For two, it was an effort to meet the same energy as "check the modlog".
Was I right in either of those, maybe not. I'll own that.
On the other hand if you don't have any notable issues with that comment I have my doubts you'd be more critical of anything I've seen on my instance.
But at the end of the day we're all different people with different insights and opinions. Am I wrong about how a comment reads to me and you're right? Is it the other way around? Neither. We're both right about how it reads to us. But that's not likely to change how you view my sincerity.
I've made my point with a good faith addendum on the slightest off-chance I'm wrong about your intentions, so I refer you to that, and with that I'm disengaging.
Idk, I saw a few comments on that post that were bad but most of it from what I saw were decently calm disagreements, at least calm in comparison to being called state actors as OP did in the post
I looked through it a few minutes ago and there are definitely polite disagreements. I absolutely appreciate that. There's also people in there obviously trying to stir shit, which I don't.
I gave the op a little more room, not for being from the same instance as me, but for being consciously unaware. Maybe I did wrong there, maybe I didn't. But they did post a "what's with" type question which implies unawareness.
I think I agree with a lot of people here more than I disagree. But it seems like more than a few would rather label me as an enemy over the things we disagree on than meet in kindness over the things we agree on. Makes discourse much harder.
Check the modlog, Doug, there is no exaggeration.
Don't need to. Saw how your users here descended upon my home instance the other day. You're hardly without blame around here
Fuck do you mean, Doug, are you denying all the apologia, fascism, colonialism, racism, sexism, ablism, and homophobia that occurred? And I wasn't there but I sure hope they gave the liberals of your instance hell for their imperialist views.
They came in with broad sweeping statements and assumptions paired with judgements and wishes of harm based in nothing but their own minds from what I could see.
There was also no shortage of an amplification of the message in this comic, all Western media is lying about everything all the time kinda thing. In the interest of full disclosure that's very likely an exaggeration itself, but I'd wager closer to the truth than what's here.
I'm not denying any of that happened any more than you're denying what went down on my home instance. I wasn't there
Not all western media is lying. There are a few okay podcasts, the Intercept, the Guardian is okay sometimes. Uhh... I can't think of any others off the top of my head right now. Pretty much all Western government organizations and individuals related to foreign policy are shit, I'm afraid. Like a couple of Irish politicians and a smattering of minority party people across the EU are the only real exception.
All media is lying to you a large part of the time. Yet it's only Western media you seem interested in calling out on it.
On the other end most media is telling you part of the truth or telling the truth part of the time.
They called it popular politics when I was in school
Bruv Western Media is the only media I can read. I'm American. We're ignorant as shit. If it's not in English I can't do anything with it.
Then learn another language. Change and grow.
But if Western media is lying and it's all you can read then how do you know it's lying?
They often admit their lies years after the damage has already been done. We mistake this for accountability
That still leaves you with having no handle on what the truth is today, right now if it's the only source of truth
I haven't consumed any Western corporate media content (that wasn't being dunked on) in years. I'm still way too aware of what's going on in the world and wish I knew less, tbh.
because there's alternative analyses available. see the news megathread
Do you think that a white-supremacist imperialist nation would be honest about an enemy that it is currently at war with?
Well done dropping the part where I explained that's likely an exaggeration. The source is out in the open. You're as free to look on my home instance as I am to look at your modlog.
I think they'd be as honest as their enemy is about them. Why would I assume that it's only one side lying about the other?
Beyond that the best lies are rooted in truth. Honesty happens with enough frequency to make the lies credible.
Then there's also the openness to influence I keep with people all over the world. Looking at varying points of view is so often the path to truth.
Yeah nah i've seen how the imperialist bigoted fuckers from your instance behaved on here so I am safe to assume that they acted as such on home turf. They fully deserved any hate they got.
So you deny that the combined western powers headed by america are a uniquely evil white-supremacist entity that has brought terror and misery to the people of our world?
Specifically here.
So you'll freely judge my whole instance based on your experience on your own, but I should not do the same in kind?
Yeah you're free to judge us as rude or whatever for being hateful to imperialist reactionaries, that just makes you an apologist for the latter.
Which countries that currently exist have legacies that are as evil, barbaric, white supremacist, genocidal, and settler-colonial as america and its allies?
Neither was founded in the genocide of an entire nation's worth of indigenous peoples, sorry.
So calling someone an ass is only ok if they were being an ass to a decent person? How far do I need to dig into someone's post history before I can call someone being an ass to them an ass?
(I cut the rest off as it wasn't in the original dispute)
England comes to mind. Japan has had some historic shit I'm aware of. I can't say whether China has or not because I've not dug into their history. Thanks for making decisions for me though I guess.
For one, we don't really know how China was founded, do we? As for Russia we'd really need to get down into Mongols and Kievan Rus and plenty of other things to make that determination.
That aside, is something founded in evil only capable of evil and something founded in good only of good? Can China and Russia do bad? Are they capable of as much evil as America?
yes
no, they don't have control of the global financial system and they don't coup and murder every antagonistic government that pops up around the globe. without the power to sanction and without the will to casually destroy entire populations, they aren't capable of anywhere near the same level of evil.
A: "I firmly believe that NATO is a good thing for the world."
B: "Shut the fuck up you imperialist piece of shit."
Idgaf what you call people, you are an imperialist piece of shit either way.
Yes, England and Japan are both racist allies of america.
The current nations which have the continuity of "China" and "Russia" didn't invade their own lands, genocide the civilizations who were living there already, and establish a white-supremacist capitalist global order using slave labor.
I dont see how this hypothetical masturbation of the intellect is relevant to america and its allies having a historical record of perpetrating and supporting white supremacist genocides and a global system of capitalist exploitation for their interests while china and russia dont. america is fundamentally a racist, imperialist, genocidal country because the very idea of america itself is founded on the notion of white supremacy and thus the invasion of foreign lands with the former as justification for slaughtering everyone there and ruining the environment for ones personal enrichment. America literally means nothing but misery and despair for the vast majority of people on earth, everyone fucking hates it, including the remnants of the indigenous people who it genocided upon its founding. And it can mean nothing more because its like saying nazi fucking germany is "capable of good", no it isnt, its a fascist state that was rightfully destroyed.
Shall we go bit by bit?
where did I say anything at all about NATO?
Based on what? Specifically. What imperialistic behavior have I exhibited, where, and how was it such? You are under no obligation to answer any of that of course, but without specifics I'm forced to assume you're just resorting to name calling because you don't like my opinions.
So it's not unique, like I said.
Where are you drawing the line for current. China has existed since well into BCE dates, and Russia since around the 18th century by the same calendar in use here.
It's directly relevant to the statement that "Neither was founded in the genocide of an entire nation's worth of indigenous peoples". If we're being pedantic it's also several nations worth, but the quote is your words. If a thing is not bound by its origins then the statement was most likely made to provoke emotional response. It seems likely that you assumed I either didn't know or didn't care about said genocide. Both are wrong. More likely, however, is that it's a set up for how bad the US is. Incredibly bad, yeah. But does the starting state determine everything or is it just one step in a road? Are bad things tallied or averaged? Surely that needs to be considered if we're to weigh a country as young as the US against one as old as China.
based on what? Leaving western media out of it I have been privy to first hand accounts of life in both and that's a mighty claim you're making.
and we're back to founding. are you your parents? Yes, America is fucked and has been for its whole run. Is it beyond fixing? What if your grand parents were racist imperialist pieces of shit? Are you then beyond the possiblity for anything good?
That's bold. I bet a lot of people don't think about it at all in their day to day lives.
provably false. I know several immigrants who love it here. I can't understand why, but it changes nothing.
Also provably false. I know several people who had families here before Europeans came over who think it needs a lot of work and needs to do a whole hell of a lot better, but they would not say they hate it.
How was it destroyed in a way that America seemingly can't be?
So far your whole spiel sounds an awful lot like "America bad, China good, fuck you if you disagree". I can only agree with one part of that.
It takes a long time for someone to deprogram all of the propaganda they have accumulated throughout their life, especially when it came from the most sophisticated propaganda machine in human history.
If you truly are a potential ally against fascism, then I hope one day you are curious enough to go out and read some things outside your comfort zone and see whether or not they make sense to you.
I am and have done for a long time. Being cognizant of what's lie and what's truth is a lifelong journey.
Outside viewpoints are one of the best tools for it.
Both sides. Concern troll. Civility. Blah blah blah. Post examples or fuck off.
Me: You guys acted more aggressive in my instance than this comic portrays
You: Both sides. Concern troll....
Posted an example elsewhere. Someone being a far bigger piece of shit doesn't mean you are incapable of being kinda crappy yourself. We're very far from anything resembling a both sides thing here
The one example you posted elsewhere (that I can find in your posts, you still won't like or make it clear for others) is this comment which is a bit ranty and online for my personal tastes, but I don't have any problem with the content of.
More importantly though, cherry picking the most (ironically) all caps reply you got here is not the same as providing evidence of Hexbear users "acting much more aggressively in my instance". So you still haven't provided anything to back up the claim you've made all over this thread. So yeah, plenty of people here will rightly doubt your sincerity.
I didn't link anything specifically for two reasons. For one, I didn't feel obligated to go sifting through a post I didn't especially enjoy the first time. For two, it was an effort to meet the same energy as "check the modlog".
Was I right in either of those, maybe not. I'll own that.
On the other hand if you don't have any notable issues with that comment I have my doubts you'd be more critical of anything I've seen on my instance.
But at the end of the day we're all different people with different insights and opinions. Am I wrong about how a comment reads to me and you're right? Is it the other way around? Neither. We're both right about how it reads to us. But that's not likely to change how you view my sincerity.
I've made my point with a good faith addendum on the slightest off-chance I'm wrong about your intentions, so I refer you to that, and with that I'm disengaging.
In sincerity, all the best to you
Idk, I saw a few comments on that post that were bad but most of it from what I saw were decently calm disagreements, at least calm in comparison to being called state actors as OP did in the post
I looked through it a few minutes ago and there are definitely polite disagreements. I absolutely appreciate that. There's also people in there obviously trying to stir shit, which I don't.
I gave the op a little more room, not for being from the same instance as me, but for being consciously unaware. Maybe I did wrong there, maybe I didn't. But they did post a "what's with" type question which implies unawareness.
I think I agree with a lot of people here more than I disagree. But it seems like more than a few would rather label me as an enemy over the things we disagree on than meet in kindness over the things we agree on. Makes discourse much harder.
😔