yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values
Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power. It doesn't matter how many lit memes anarchists and communists share on social media and how much they horn on about "direct action," this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.
You want me to do some introspection? I did. I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power.
Spoken like someone who's never done organizing, participated in protests or any other direct action. You're a keyboard warrior who's probably never even interacted with a socialist IRL.
this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.
Not a democracy and also I already gave 2 examples showing the contrary.
I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
No need to be a condescending dick. I'm also guessing I'm older than you, not that it's relevant.
I've participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
No need to be a condescending dick.
If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.
Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
Right... I'm not sure why you think I'm not in favor of organized resistance.
If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.
You were doing a "both sides" between anarchists and fascists, eerily similar to Trump, while claiming to be "left leaning". I think my response was warranted, if not understated. But frankly, that's plain ignorant.
Like I said, attempting to degrade the only left leaning political coalition means someone is hostile to any sort of positive left leaning activism. If that doesn't describe a given anarchist, then what I said doesn't apply to them. If it does, then they might as well be a Trumpster.
Who or what is this sole "left leaning political coalition"? If you're referring to Democrats they are neither left leaning nor a coalition. They are a center-right political party. Coalition implies multiple parties. And the Democratic party isn't exactly known for activism, unless you're counting fundraising events.
And the Democratic party isn't exactly known for activism
They're the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden. I don't always agree with the Democratic Party, but nobody other than them or Republicans are organized better than a herd of cats or numerous enough to win office, so...
They're the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden.
Then we're fucked. Because idk if you've noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.
but nobody other than them or Republicans are organized better than a herd of cats or numerous enough to win office, so...
This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize. Its a problem with how our constitution is written, primarily the fact that we use first passed the post, see Duverger's law.
Then we're fucked. Because idk if you've noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.
You're right. What's been done so far won't fully solve the problem. Better undermine support for people trying to get what can be done, done, and then doom all over the Internet.
This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize
Nah, even in areas with ranked choice voting, third parties are jokes. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of reforms designed to allow them a more reasonable and equal access to the political levers of power, but the two most significant third parties are the Greens and Libertarians. Neither one is a political force, and not just because of first past the post voting. Niche, ideologically focused parties will always underperform wide coalitions within democracies.
You're right. What's been done so far won't fully solve the problem. Better undermine support for people trying to get what can be done, done, and then doom all over the Internet.
The libs are the ones undermining the progress. It ought to be self evident by now that radical measures need to be taken, and that the markets will not solve the climate crisis, the kind of regulation we need would kill entire sectors of the economy. Even when it comes to moderate improvements, Democrats are obstructed by both the minority opposition and members of their own party (as libs are always quick to remind me).
The Democrats will never be able to do what needs to get done. So you undermine the chance for meaningful change when you tell people, "don't worry, Biden is on it, just vote and everything will be fine".
Nah, even in areas with ranked choice voting, third parties are jokes. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of reforms designed to allow them a more reasonable and equal access to the political levers of power, but the two most significant third parties are the Greens and Libertarians. Neither one is a political force, and not just because of first past the post voting. Niche, ideologically focused parties will always underperform wide coalitions within democracies.
Which areas? Areas in the US? Yeah, hundreds of years of entrenched power at the local, State, and federal level will do that. Would take time and likely ranked choice at the federal level to change.
"we just need to kill the economy to save the planet" doesn't seem like a productive way to sell reengineering our economy to lead us towards carbon neutrality, doomer
"Look, I'd love to have a habitable planet, but have you considered the stock market?"
If you don't think a global problem that's intertwined with every aspect of the economy might require a similarly far-reaching solution, you aren't taking this seriously.
Jesus Christ even the things you think are the goal are woefully weak and limited. You think "carbon neutrality" will solve climate change? We need massive carbon negativity.
Because who else would greenlight controversial pipeline projects that will accelerate the rot of remote ecosystems and the pollution of our atmosphere and waters? Oh right, any other elected official on either side of the Dem / Republican line...
I’ve participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
Protests !== organizing. Organizing achieves political change. Protest does not. Leftists know how to organize, liberals do not.
Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power
The US isn't a democracy, you can't build coalitions with people who want to destroy everything you stand for, direct action got George Floyd justice not votes, and the people you back turned around and decided to fund the police to record levels, it's a war not an electoral campaign
I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
Do you know how to communicate in anything other than thought terminating clichés?
Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power. It doesn't matter how many lit memes anarchists and communists share on social media and how much they horn on about "direct action," this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.
You want me to do some introspection? I did. I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
Spoken like someone who's never done organizing, participated in protests or any other direct action. You're a keyboard warrior who's probably never even interacted with a socialist IRL.
Not a democracy and also I already gave 2 examples showing the contrary.
No need to be a condescending dick. I'm also guessing I'm older than you, not that it's relevant.
I've participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.
Right... I'm not sure why you think I'm not in favor of organized resistance.
You were doing a "both sides" between anarchists and fascists, eerily similar to Trump, while claiming to be "left leaning". I think my response was warranted, if not understated. But frankly, that's plain ignorant.
Like I said, attempting to degrade the only left leaning political coalition means someone is hostile to any sort of positive left leaning activism. If that doesn't describe a given anarchist, then what I said doesn't apply to them. If it does, then they might as well be a Trumpster.
Who or what is this sole "left leaning political coalition"? If you're referring to Democrats they are neither left leaning nor a coalition. They are a center-right political party. Coalition implies multiple parties. And the Democratic party isn't exactly known for activism, unless you're counting fundraising events.
Suuuuuure they're right leaning.
They're the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden. I don't always agree with the Democratic Party, but nobody other than them or Republicans are organized better than a herd of cats or numerous enough to win office, so...
HAHAHAHA....
You mean his approving more oil drilling than Trump?
Then we're fucked. Because idk if you've noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.
This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize. Its a problem with how our constitution is written, primarily the fact that we use first passed the post, see Duverger's law.
You're right. What's been done so far won't fully solve the problem. Better undermine support for people trying to get what can be done, done, and then doom all over the Internet.
Nah, even in areas with ranked choice voting, third parties are jokes. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of reforms designed to allow them a more reasonable and equal access to the political levers of power, but the two most significant third parties are the Greens and Libertarians. Neither one is a political force, and not just because of first past the post voting. Niche, ideologically focused parties will always underperform wide coalitions within democracies.
The libs are the ones undermining the progress. It ought to be self evident by now that radical measures need to be taken, and that the markets will not solve the climate crisis, the kind of regulation we need would kill entire sectors of the economy. Even when it comes to moderate improvements, Democrats are obstructed by both the minority opposition and members of their own party (as libs are always quick to remind me).
The Democrats will never be able to do what needs to get done. So you undermine the chance for meaningful change when you tell people, "don't worry, Biden is on it, just vote and everything will be fine".
Which areas? Areas in the US? Yeah, hundreds of years of entrenched power at the local, State, and federal level will do that. Would take time and likely ranked choice at the federal level to change.
"we just need to kill the economy to save the planet" doesn't seem like a productive way to sell reengineering our economy to lead us towards carbon neutrality, doomer
Someone who believes Biden is the only hope for climate action doesn't need to be calling anyone else a doomer, lmao
"Look, I'd love to have a habitable planet, but have you considered the stock market?"
If you don't think a global problem that's intertwined with every aspect of the economy might require a similarly far-reaching solution, you aren't taking this seriously.
As opposed to killing the planet to save the economy lmao
Jesus Christ even the things you think are the goal are woefully weak and limited. You think "carbon neutrality" will solve climate change? We need massive carbon negativity.
I too want to reengineer the economy.
Because who else would greenlight controversial pipeline projects that will accelerate the rot of remote ecosystems and the pollution of our atmosphere and waters? Oh right, any other elected official on either side of the Dem / Republican line...
Protests !== organizing. Organizing achieves political change. Protest does not. Leftists know how to organize, liberals do not.
If liberals don't know how to organize and leftists do, why does the Democratic party dominate elections
Have you heard of capitalism?
Have you heard of COINTELPRO?
Because leftists understand that actual progress doesn’t come from voting?
sir you act like the US is a democracy
This is unnecessary aggro, and you are the only one here making sweeping assumptions.
Nah, the other fellow is too
You mean like the 2000 election?
They must mean that referendum we had to overturn Roe v. Wade, or the one that got us universal healthcare
No I think they mean the 2016 Democrat primary and the subsequent election
The time most people didn't want trup but he still got elected because
Did you actually do any studying about socialism during this phase, or is this the "Che Guevara T-Shirt" socialism I've heard so much about?
We both know it wasn't even Che Guevara T-Shirt socialism. It was definitely "I think the nordic model is pretty cool" socialism.
The US isn't a democracy, you can't build coalitions with people who want to destroy everything you stand for, direct action got George Floyd justice not votes, and the people you back turned around and decided to fund the police to record levels, it's a war not an electoral campaign
Do you know how to communicate in anything other than thought terminating clichés?
The Democrats have significant political power how's that working out?