Please let me know if this community is not the best place for this post.

When I was a teenager, and even in my twenties, I used to be quite idealistic, naive, and somewhat radical, believing that all humans have the capacity to be good, and that the only thing preventing utopia where all live in abundance were the historical shackles of national/cultural/religious identities. As in, humans would for sure all get along, if only there were no major reasons for any "us vs them" type thinking.

But the older I get, the more my thoughts on the topic have shifted. My idealism has constantly been worn down by finding out about more and more people who would be happy to fuck over every single other person on this planet if it meant they could get a bit further "ahead" than everybody else. But even on a much smaller scale, after establishing my own family and building my home, at some point I realised that I would personally also be willing to go to extreme lengths if necessary to protect the way of life of my loved ones, including picking up a gun if our neighbouring country decides we should no longer have our freedom - this is something I would have considered "idiotic patriotism" when I was younger. Basically, this means I would also be willing to fuck up the lives of others in order to improve the lives of my family, and I think the same is true for most people.

What I'm getting at is that I think there are lots of reasons that people can have to hurt other humans, ranging from psychotic greed to a strong commitment to close ones. I think this is just human nature. I'm using the word "hurt" here in a very broad sense, including taking advantage of somebody, etc.

If indeed this is human nature, and humans are willing to exploit others to try and improve the situation for themselves and their loved ones, how can communism work? Would we not need to "evolve" to a new stage of humanity first, where people are capable of putting the needs of society above their own desires?

I apologise if this is a dumb question with some obvious answer, I admit I have not read any books on communism and am probably missing some key points.

  • fossilesque@mander.xyz
    ·
    1 year ago

    Someone will have a more thought-out answer than me, as I am not a communist (I have not decided what I am anyway other than generally left... I have a rather distaste for labels anyway.). But, I do recognise your human nature argument, which is a common one, but inherently flawed. So much so, that it is even in this FAQ. See: https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/socialism_faq.md#what-about-human-nature

    Basically, a tl;dr version is that humans will act in accordance within the systems they set themselves in. They can be greedy, generous, violent, kind, or anywhere on a grand spectrum of the tapestry of options. If you set up the system to encourage greed, such as we have now, you reap what you sow. It is important to remember that we have not always lived in this way and have the option to change things for better or worse. How we do so is another matter and is one of the reasons why the left is always infighting.

    For an example of how these systems work in practice, when done correctly, check out: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/capitalism_doesnt_work.html (read the full thing to see why it is relevant)

    There are some arguments, I've come across, that suggested that the US might have needed the USSR so that they had a competition to keep standards for their citizens up (to keep them loyal, etc.), however, that is debatable but a fun thought experiment.

    PS, if you want a great read on this theme, well, sort-of-kind-of, check out: https://archive.org/details/graeber-wengrow-dawn/David%20Graeber%2C%20David%20Wengrow%20-%20The%20Dawn%20of%20Everything_%20A%20New%20History%20of%20Humanity-Farrar%2C%20Straus%20and%20Giroux%20%282021%29/ As with anything, having a simple source to blame such as "human nature" never really tells the full story.

    Edits: Many and lots, flowing with my thoughts. Deal with it.