(CW: chapters 4 and 5 contain explicit discussions of sexual assault)

Hello comrades, it's time for our third discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 4 (Stopping Male Violence) and 5 (Male Sexual Being). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

I'll be sharing my full thoughts later as there's quite a lot of unpack in these chapters.

In Ch.4 hooks delves into how patriarchal repression of men's emotional worlds most often manifests as violence and rage, especially against women and children, and how patriarchy conditions both young boys and young girls to perpetuate the cycle. Ch.5 explores how patriarchal attitudes extend to the bedroom and twist our popular conceptions of sexuality, sexual fulfillment, and physical and emotional satisfaction.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 6 (Work: What's Love Got To Do With It?) and 7 (Feminist Manhood), beginning on 12/18.

edit: the previous post didn't have the proper links to the pdf book and audiobooks, sorry for that

  • dumples@midwest.social
    ·
    5 days ago

    One of the things I found hard about reflecting on the first chapter was being sympathetic to the manly men in my own life that have been assholes. I was bullied and teased for “being a wimp” in school (in other words, doing effeminate things like reading and being thin), and as an adult a female relative of mine is dealing with a nasty divorce from a real piece of work manly man who’s deeply betrayed her. Intellectually I appreciate that a lot of the manly man behaviour that’s negatively affected me and the people I love is a direct outgrowth of the patriarchy and patriarchal values as described by hooks.

    I don't think bell hooks is trying to build sympathy for assholes or even justify people's behavior. Like everything in life our actions are driven by our culture and societal upbringing but we did them, made a choice to do them and therefore must own them. The presence of everyone here and every decent man that exists shows the upbringing is not destiny. The title of the book is "The Will to Change" so we must be willing to change. I see two purposes of this book: first to convince men that they should change because of the hardships the patriarchy has done to them; second to explain for those men who are trying to change what pitfalls they should look out for and why it might be difficult. It doesn't justify the actions of men who are unwilling to change.

    • carpoftruth [any, any]
      ·
      5 days ago

      I don't think bell hooks is trying to build sympathy for assholes or even justify people's behavior.

      I don't think she's trying to justify people's behavior at all, but I do think that sympathy for men is an important message of the book. She accurately describes societal systems that shape men, forces that act on us from outside. This one asshole I'm thinking of is so clearly emotionally broken in the ways that hooks describes. I don't think he has the "will to change", but nevertheless, honest reflection on hooks' writing should lead to some degree of sympathy. That is what I'm finding hard. I don't like feeling sympathy for him.

      • dumples@midwest.social
        ·
        5 days ago

        That is what I’m finding hard. I don’t like feeling sympathy for him.

        She is for sure trying to get sympathy for Men not for that specific man. You can be sympathetic for Men and not a specific asshole. There are assholes in all groups and who don't always deserve your sympathy.