A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that's your chief characteristic
Oh by that measure I wholeheartedly agree, there is not a single socialist nation in Europe.
How would you describe the European legislation to protect their citizens from the effects of the market and capital? (Welfare, worker rights, pensions, limited work hours, paid leave etc.)
I'm not looking for dialectical nitpicking (maybe Socratic questioning), I'm asking out of curiosity and a want to understand the differences.
That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition.
I'm not 100% sure about that, but I was more interested in the intrinsic correlation between democracy and Liberalism.
I just can't imagine a democracy that isn't liberal, because all the basic elements of a democracy crumble soon after. Unless, well, you consider ancient Athens' Democracy to be an actual democracy.
I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents
Where people can vote for their leaders of any political bent, while people on the mainland are machine gunned for peacefully protesting to gain the right to do so. Wumau tankie fascists are all the same.
This is like an octopus ink cloud of liberal and bullshit
They still put Chiang "The butcher of Shanghai" Kai Shek on their money to this day. I have some from my time there. Guy was sort of the Zelensky of his day honestly
Taiwan aka Republic of China aka state of China aka not a country. I dont care what a hand full of redditors have told you but they dont have a seat at the UN, the United States and EU doesnt recognize it as a sovereign nation, Taiwan depends on Chinese government and Chinese exports.
Either way, China claims itself to be a democratic socialist country so just own that.
Yeah ok man I don't care about your geopolitics, the point is that the only part of what is considered China which is at all democratic is Taiwan. The PRC is a totalitarian, one party dictatorship.
Their existence is allowed as long as they recognize the CCP as the leading party.
That is unusual for a Communist state, but it is definitely not a democracy.
Not that it is a bad thing, it is just not a democracy.
Great, I wasn't talking about America.
I am also not American, so maybe you're right about it being corrupt.
It doesn't change the fact that China's CCP allows other parties in a controlled manner, to such an extent that they are allowed to exist as long as they acknowledge the superiority of the CCP.
This leads to the tyranny of the majority, as explained in the writings of John Stewart Mill.
Is it morally wrong? I'm not sure you can judge China the same as other nations. I find China to be very complicated and unique in human history.
Is it a democracy? Certainly not a full one.
The Majority's tyranny is an easy discerning factor between democracies and republics.
Taiwan hasn't even been "democratic" (in the sense of "murder all political opponents to the left of Reagan for 40 years and then start letting people vote for the party that did this") for more than a few decades, so even at face value this barely counts.
How would this picture look like in a socialist democracy like some European countries?
At best European nations are social liberal democracies. No European country is a socialist nation.
yeah ask an american
I'm an American. No European country is a socialist nation.
ask a dumber american
🙄
What are the minimal requirements of a nation to uphold in order to be considered socialist?
A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that's your chief characteristic
Oh by that measure I wholeheartedly agree, there is not a single socialist nation in Europe.
How would you describe the European legislation to protect their citizens from the effects of the market and capital? (Welfare, worker rights, pensions, limited work hours, paid leave etc.)
I'm not looking for dialectical nitpicking (maybe Socratic questioning), I'm asking out of curiosity and a want to understand the differences.
That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism
Thank you, very informative.
Is there a non-liberal democracy that isn't, by definition, flawed?
Humanity is flawed, so any of our constructions will be. But democracy is better than any alternative.
I'm not 100% sure about that, but I was more interested in the intrinsic correlation between democracy and Liberalism.
I just can't imagine a democracy that isn't liberal, because all the basic elements of a democracy crumble soon after. Unless, well, you consider ancient Athens' Democracy to be an actual democracy.
I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents
China is a socialist democracy too. Dont leave them out.
The only part of China which is at all a democracy is Taiwan
Wholesome democracy Taiwan with their very democratic four decades of martial law and concentration camps
Where people can vote for their leaders of any political bent, while people on the mainland are machine gunned for peacefully protesting to gain the right to do so. Wumau tankie fascists are all the same.
This is like an octopus ink cloud of liberal
and bullshit
They still put Chiang "The butcher of Shanghai" Kai Shek on their money to this day. I have some from my time there. Guy was sort of the Zelensky of his day honestly
Taiwan aka Republic of China aka state of China aka not a country. I dont care what a hand full of redditors have told you but they dont have a seat at the UN, the United States and EU doesnt recognize it as a sovereign nation, Taiwan depends on Chinese government and Chinese exports.
Either way, China claims itself to be a democratic socialist country so just own that.
Yeah ok man I don't care about your geopolitics, the point is that the only part of what is considered China which is at all democratic is Taiwan. The PRC is a totalitarian, one party dictatorship.
There are eight (8) other political parties in the mainland People's Republic of China
Their existence is allowed as long as they recognize the CCP as the leading party. That is unusual for a Communist state, but it is definitely not a democracy.
Not that it is a bad thing, it is just not a democracy.
china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college.
Great, I wasn't talking about America. I am also not American, so maybe you're right about it being corrupt.
It doesn't change the fact that China's CCP allows other parties in a controlled manner, to such an extent that they are allowed to exist as long as they acknowledge the superiority of the CCP.
This leads to the tyranny of the majority, as explained in the writings of John Stewart Mill.
Is it morally wrong? I'm not sure you can judge China the same as other nations. I find China to be very complicated and unique in human history.
Is it a democracy? Certainly not a full one. The Majority's tyranny is an easy discerning factor between democracies and republics.
Look at those goalposts fly
Sounds like an American football reference, didn't get it.
Taiwan hasn't even been "democratic" (in the sense of "murder all political opponents to the left of Reagan for 40 years and then start letting people vote for the party that did this") for more than a few decades, so even at face value this barely counts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)