I wouldn't say Lemmygrad has odd takes for being MLs, they are extremely consistent with most organized ML parties worldwide. I'd need to know what you mean by "odd," the fact that they have an ML line or their interpretation of ML, the latter of which is very standard from what I have seen.
Back to Veganism, I haven't experienced hostility, and I think it's generally going to be that way unless you bash veganism or defend antiveganism or non-veganism, hence the point of a vegan community. Just my 2 cents.
That's good to know, thanks for sharing! I appreciate your explanations.
IDK, I disagree. I've experienced it both on reddit and here. Everyone is vegan or vegetarian for their own reasons, I don't think enforces a specific ideology or you can't discuss is fair to newbies or anyone is doesn't 100% agree.
Regardless, I will look for another not lemmy.world one.
Gotcha. In my opinion, one must understand both viewpoints, that of the newcomer and that of the tired, long-ime vegan. Looking at problems from one side alone is anti-dialectical and results in false conclusions. There will be no perfect community for the new and the old, and communities are made and maintained by the old so it will lean in their favor regardless.
You can be the change you want to see. If you find a community that is close to what you want, you can actively participate and offer suggestions to help "onboarding" of new vegans. I try to do the same with Marxism, even making an intro reading list that I frequently share (and keep linked on my profile), because I know other comrades are more tired and hostile as a consequence. I refuse to blame hostile reaction when existence itself is under siege regularly, be it veganism or Marxism, and would rather take on the proactive mantle myself.
The supermajority of self described vegans are ethical vegans. Ethical veganism is not a diet.
For example, animal products you find in a trash can are ethically vegan because consuming them does not contribute to, or create economic demand for animal abuse. First-hand leather products (which you do not eat) are absolutely not ethically vegan.
For example, animal products you find in a trash can are ethically vegan because consuming them does not contribute to, or create economic demand for animal abuse. First-hand leather products (which you do not eat) are absolutely not ethically vegan.
This is not a mainstream view in the same way it is not a mainstream view that eating human body you find from someone you did not kill is generally not considered ethical.
I don't because I think the idea of eating a literal part of an animal is gross and you probably should feel that way, but if you're already dumpster diving that implies you probably need it more than most. Regardless that's a great example of a vegan "party line" one might have.
I dunno about normative claims, I was just saying I think a lot of ethical vegans (i.e. actual vegans) disagree with dumpster diving for non human meat because they see it similar to corpse desecration.
I'm personally more sympathetic to the idea that bodies are just materials once someone is done with them but I know that this is a fringe view and it deeply upsets some people to consider the bodies of the dead disturbed in any way. At the same time I think there are perverse incentives there to be careful of and that normalising continued use of animal products may bleed over into stuff like "cheat days" so I remain theoretically sympathetic.
I wouldn't say Lemmygrad has odd takes for being MLs, they are extremely consistent with most organized ML parties worldwide. I'd need to know what you mean by "odd," the fact that they have an ML line or their interpretation of ML, the latter of which is very standard from what I have seen.
Back to Veganism, I haven't experienced hostility, and I think it's generally going to be that way unless you bash veganism or defend antiveganism or non-veganism, hence the point of a vegan community. Just my 2 cents.
That's good to know, thanks for sharing! I appreciate your explanations.
IDK, I disagree. I've experienced it both on reddit and here. Everyone is vegan or vegetarian for their own reasons, I don't think enforces a specific ideology or you can't discuss is fair to newbies or anyone is doesn't 100% agree.
Regardless, I will look for another not lemmy.world one.
Gotcha. In my opinion, one must understand both viewpoints, that of the newcomer and that of the tired, long-ime vegan. Looking at problems from one side alone is anti-dialectical and results in false conclusions. There will be no perfect community for the new and the old, and communities are made and maintained by the old so it will lean in their favor regardless.
Good application of dialects but they can at least be nice… :/
You can be the change you want to see. If you find a community that is close to what you want, you can actively participate and offer suggestions to help "onboarding" of new vegans. I try to do the same with Marxism, even making an intro reading list that I frequently share (and keep linked on my profile), because I know other comrades are more tired and hostile as a consequence. I refuse to blame hostile reaction when existence itself is under siege regularly, be it veganism or Marxism, and would rather take on the proactive mantle myself.
Great advice! I think you’re definitely doing that as your replies today and yesterday are both enlightening and kind.
Thank you! 🫡
A lot of people are vegan or vegetarian for the same reason. Plenty of groups within the movement have theory and a party line
A party line… for a diet?
The supermajority of self described vegans are ethical vegans. Ethical veganism is not a diet.
For example, animal products you find in a trash can are ethically vegan because consuming them does not contribute to, or create economic demand for animal abuse. First-hand leather products (which you do not eat) are absolutely not ethically vegan.
This is not a mainstream view in the same way it is not a mainstream view that eating human body you find from someone you did not kill is generally not considered ethical.
You can agree that something is ethically vegan without agreeing that it's a good thing to do.
I don't because I think the idea of eating a literal part of an animal is gross and you probably should feel that way, but if you're already dumpster diving that implies you probably need it more than most. Regardless that's a great example of a vegan "party line" one might have.
I dunno about normative claims, I was just saying I think a lot of ethical vegans (i.e. actual vegans) disagree with dumpster diving for non human meat because they see it similar to corpse desecration.
I'm personally more sympathetic to the idea that bodies are just materials once someone is done with them but I know that this is a fringe view and it deeply upsets some people to consider the bodies of the dead disturbed in any way. At the same time I think there are perverse incentives there to be careful of and that normalising continued use of animal products may bleed over into stuff like "cheat days" so I remain theoretically sympathetic.
Yeah I agree with your examples :)
I’m not saying they’re different reasons I’m saying they’re not the same as one online forums singular enforced reason.