Ie not vegan@lemmy.world.
Edit: I am going to try to start my own for now here https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/plantbased
Not accepting that people need time to adjust and maybe go vegan in smaller steps. There is even hostility towards people who look for fake meat or dare to say they like the taste of meat even though they still want to avoid eating it. Just generally being assholes and gatekeepers.
This is a natural consequence of always being attacked by non-vegans, patience is thin and communities are maintained by the ones who remain. Unlike, say, gaming, veganism is constantly attacked, so it's harder for them to be more inclusive than a gaming community would be.
Also, a lot of people that join fringe movements have a personality that craves conflict, and it becomes an outlet for it.
Non-carnism isn't really so fringe anymore, but that's pretty new, and may not have reached veganism specifically.
Previously I found that they were staunchly anti-anything but vegan and carried over said rudeness from the reddit communities. As a vegan myself it was a big turn off. I asked about this and they banned me. Reminiscent of lemmygrad on anything but their specific MLM ideology.
Lemmygrad aren't MLM, they are ML with Dengist sympathies and are anti-Gonzaloist, but regardless most Vegans on the fediverse are Vegan because of strict ethical and moral reasons and believe in full animal liberation. It's hard to take a half-way stance on that matter with that frame of mind, which can manifest itself in "rudeness." Additionally, most Vegans experience tons of hostility, making them more defensive by default.
That makes sense about lemmygrad's odd takes.
As a vegan I fully get that, but most vegan communities are hostile at best.
I wouldn't say Lemmygrad has odd takes for being MLs, they are extremely consistent with most organized ML parties worldwide. I'd need to know what you mean by "odd," the fact that they have an ML line or their interpretation of ML, the latter of which is very standard from what I have seen.
Back to Veganism, I haven't experienced hostility, and I think it's generally going to be that way unless you bash veganism or defend antiveganism or non-veganism, hence the point of a vegan community. Just my 2 cents.
That's good to know, thanks for sharing! I appreciate your explanations.
IDK, I disagree. I've experienced it both on reddit and here. Everyone is vegan or vegetarian for their own reasons, I don't think enforces a specific ideology or you can't discuss is fair to newbies or anyone is doesn't 100% agree.
Regardless, I will look for another not lemmy.world one.
Everyone is vegan or vegetarian for their own reasons
A lot of people are vegan or vegetarian for the same reason. Plenty of groups within the movement have theory and a party line
I’m not saying they’re different reasons I’m saying they’re not the same as one online forums singular enforced reason.
Gotcha. In my opinion, one must understand both viewpoints, that of the newcomer and that of the tired, long-ime vegan. Looking at problems from one side alone is anti-dialectical and results in false conclusions. There will be no perfect community for the new and the old, and communities are made and maintained by the old so it will lean in their favor regardless.
Good application of dialects but they can at least be nice… :/
most people with values will be pretty stringent about them
not sure you're gonna find anything
I have a deep desire to resurrect the vegan struggle session every time I see people tone policing us on this website, but we live in 1984 and I know the mods would remove it smh-ing my head
I don’t need a struggle session for how I ethically eat. If you think not wanting people to be rude is tone policing then you’re probably not nice.
Not being useful to your question at all, but if you find or start a community, I'll join. I've been various stages of vegetarian and vegan over the last 6 years. Never felt like I needed to talk about my specific, contextual exceptions, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be well accepted among hardline vegans.
I will try to start it here: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/plantbased :)
That is useful :) I would love to be able to discuss this freely as well. I’ve been doing it for about the same time as you! Thanks for sharing!
I've also found that the vegans I know in my personal life are mostly nonjudgmental. Militant veganism feels like a stereotype or an anomaly of online spaces. Get to know some vegans at work/school/mural aid groups/activist orgs and you'll probably find some friends who don't need you to be 100% vegan all the time. Personally, I allow myself to slip into a vegetarian diet on my birthday, my partner's birthday, and our anniversary. I've never received criticism for this, but I'd understand if other vegans had a problem with it.
You’re probably right, I also see it more online.
Your personal choice about holidays is exactly the kind of thing that would be attack on vegan@lemmy.world. That’s my main point :(
I just want to say I love militant vegans, so long as militant means they are organized and actively creating the world they want to live in. if they are just preaching, I would not say they are militant, just evangelical.
and, to be clear, I'm neither. I just find militancy admirable.
How do you see vegans organizing and creating this world without preaching? How do you spread an ethical diet? Like that one dude saying struggle sessions and party line… for a diet, what
they can organize among themselves. affinity groups that practice direct action are like my favorite political orgs.
Direct action? You’re implying something beyond ethics and diet. But what? Honestly don’t know! ;)
animal liberation front did some good work. earth liberation front, just stop oil.... you get the idea I hope
There are a couple vegan specific instances that you could try searching for, I can't point them out for you right now. But in my experience at least, they seem to be pretty reasonable.
Oh yeah good point! I’ve run into them too but can’t remember their names.
Vegantheoryclub.org is one, and while technically not Vegan focused, Hexbear.net is explicitly pro-Veganism.
Not certain on VTC, but Hexbear's vegan community definitely took a hardline stance against the things OP's asking for, with zero tolerance for things like vegetarianism or making changes to reduce your meat intake - it's all or nothing.
Fair, doubt OP will find exactly what they want anywhere though. Most vegans are ethical vegans, so it's hard to find some in favor of any meat eating.
Sorry, I should have said animal products - there's an attitude that there can be no stages of transition to a fully plant based life, you have to immediately excise everything animal based in your life and replace it with plant based alternatives. The irl vegans I know (and what I think OP is looking for) tend to be more in favour of encouraging people to take steps to improve rather than rejecting people for not having taken all of the steps yet.
vegan theory club is probably not what the OP wants. We are friendly and relaxed but we maintain this by a zero tolerance stance against anything except veganism.
So vegans can freely chat and talk in good faith and safe in the knowledge they won't have to defend themselves or stumble on something miserable, but if you want a space shared with carnists then uh. Yeah maybe hexbear is better?
