• PosadistInevitablity [he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    You sorta have to win the war to declare independence.

    Change the question to: “would you die for Taiwanese independence?” And watch the numbers drop.

    • diablexical@lemm.ee
      ·
      1 year ago

      You sorta have to win the war to declare independence.

      So mainland China is not independent then?

      • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        They have the mainland and everyone recognizes them as China.

        Sounds independent to me. Forget your pedantic nonsense.

        • diablexical@lemm.ee
          ·
          1 year ago

          Sounds independent to me. Forget your pedantic nonsense.

          As does Taiwan to me, and right back at you comrade.

          • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            So the “nation” that doesn’t even consider itself independent sounds independent to you?

            And I’m the one being pedantic?

            Sorry to say but independence isn’t a vibe.

            It’s not a vibe based analysis.

            • diablexical@lemm.ee
              ·
              1 year ago

              that doesn’t even consider itself independent

              How does it not consider itself independent?

              • Catradora_Stalinism [she/her, comrade/them]
                ·
                1 year ago

                the government doesn't. Government don't reflect the will of the people. Even if the people want a "free taiwan" the government will constantly pursue a policy of reunification under their government.

                • diablexical@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Government don’t reflect the will of the people

                  In some countries laws are put to the vote of the population, enacted, and enforced. Would you deny that is a reflection of the people's will?

                  the government will constantly pursue a policy of reunification under their government

                  This is untrue. The Tsai Ing-wen administration maintains that Taiwan is already an independent country as the Republic of China and thus does not have to push for any sort of formal independence. They want to maintain the status quo because they don't want their population slaughtered. As does the population. Almost like they are the same. Sort of like a reflection.

                  • Catradora_Stalinism [she/her, comrade/them]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    In some countries laws are put to the vote of the population, enacted, and enforced. Would you deny that is a reflection of the people's will?

                    Bourgeoisie democracies serve the rich first, the corporations first. Democracy of the dollar always favors the ones with the most dollars. I will rightfully claim that most people do not feel represented by their neoliberal country's government.

                    Also how do you claim to be a different, independent government, but also claim to be china? They also have claims on Tibet and Mongolia!

              • Aria@lemmygrad.ml
                ·
                1 year ago

                Article 4 of the constitution:

                The territory of the Republic of China according to its existing national boundaries shall not be altered except by resolution of the National Assembly.

                Which means they're not independent of the rest of China. They also claim parts of Japan, Korea, Myanmar, Bhutan, India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Russia, and according to Vietnam parts of Vietnam. Their territorial claims aren't ancient by the way, they were revised in 2002, when they accepted Mongolia's sovereignty.

            • randint@lemm.ee
              ·
              1 year ago

              So the “nation” that doesn’t even consider itself independent sounds independent to you?

              They cannot claim themselves independent or else China would attack. Don't you think it's kind of ludicrous that a country can force another "region" to not be independent by threatening them?

              • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                What are your opinions on the civil war in the US?

                Should the confederacy have been allowed to leave without threat of force?

        • randint@lemm.ee
          ·
          1 year ago

          @diablexical@lemm.ee was not actually claiming that China is not independent. They are trying prove that Taiwan is independent through reductio ad absurdium. Basically, they try to derive something absurd (in this case China not being independent) from your claims.

          • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Thus “pedantic nonsense”

            You can’t prove independence through logical contradiction. It’s a state of foreign recognition. China clearly won the war enough to be recognized. Taiwan did not.

            Independence isn’t a vibe.

    • randint@lemm.ee
      ·
      1 year ago

      Why would anyone want to die for a mere label of "independence"? Most Taiwanese people just want to enjoy the practically independent status quo.

      • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Because it’s not a vibe. They’re not really independent. The island will live forever in Chinas shadow.