I escaped the Reddit regime a little while ago. I consider myself a marxist-leninist-MZT. Vegetarian and vegan for a few years. I've a lot of thoughts on how marxism and veganism are connected. Never wrote them down. I'd like to start smth like a club for marxist vegans to develop our own proletarian theory. Most vegan theory I found is either openly bourgeois (Francione is a literal TERF) or revisionist (anti-China, anarchist, libertarian). How about fixing this?
Omnivore means you can eat meat, it does not mean you need to eat meat.
Well guess what I prefer it and dislike most plant based stuff except few fruits and vegetables.
this is genuinely what toddlers sound like. "i don't like broccoli, i want chicken nuggets!"
Yeah I hate broccoli, but this'll shock you, I never eat chicken nuggets either, I love it classically cooked/roasted, particularly wings and legs. But just because I love potatoes, watermelon, oranges, grapes and peach doesn't mean that I love every single plant and that my diet has to consist exclusively on it.
It could go the other way: ''I want to eat only plants and force it upon others just because I dislike meat and can't comprehend the fact that human beings are omnivorous and ate meat since we came to existence''.
I'd recommend you to explain this stuff to a Polar or Grizzly Bear... Actually don't, bad idea, try it with Raccoons and Crows instead for starters and see how it goes.
no one lacks comprehension of the fact that humans have historically eaten meat. we're just making the (obvious, factual) claim that you don't require it to survive in any capacity. your body won't shut down without it. i'm not particularly interested in how you like your corpses cooked, at this point i'm alternately making fun of your childlike palate and making it clear that your claim that humans "need" to eat dead animals is goofy as fuck and you should be embarrassed about saying something so ignorant.
You don't, but it's not healthy(I'm talking about not eating even fish or milk) and humans ALWAYS historically had balanced diet of both since you simply can't get something which is exclusive to meat from a plant, includes vitamins, calcium etc. You should be embarrassed just like the others like you who force this shit onto people and act like you have some high ground, it's a choice, plain and simple. There's a lot of things to be angry about in the world and natural eating diets, omnivores and carnivores aren't one of them.
And don't eat Venus Flytrap by any chance, it's carnivorous.
You should stop embarrassing yourself as you have clearly no idea about what you're talking about.
It is healthy and sustainable. There is multiple meta-studies confirming it and many gouvernemental associations of dietetics and nutritions say so, here is one such example.
You are the one forcing your "lifestyle" on sentient beings just because you enjoy it. Stop for 2 minutes and think what your behavior actually entails and what this means for your moral system.
Its clear you have no idea about what you're talking about when you say that calcium is something you can only find in sufficient quantities in animal products. Stop typing like a toddler and go educate yourself.
Or do you seriously hold the position that milk from another mammal is necessary to the survival of humans despite the vast majority of them being intolerant to it ?
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10027313/
I never saw anyone forcing diets onto people more than vegans, not even ultra religious people who feast(because even Jesus said to them that humans can eat everything), I knew few vegetarians who never even mentioned this stuff on regular basis to people, because that wasn't their entire personality and I respect it. But vegans specifically do, stealing people's chickens, letting them in wild(which results in them getting eaten by fox immediately), vandalizing, lecturing people, moralizing, annoying people en masse, barging into farms on villages and destroying people's jobs which is how they make a living etc, no one does this shit.
No one is forcing you to eat meat, or fish, or eggs, or even milk for that matter, you're the ones who force this shit and sound EXACTLY like this guy:
I never thought that there would be a situation where I would get vegan lecturing on Lemmy of all places.
I do, I understand basic biology and the fact that humans are OMNIVORES, and milk is healthy, what even is the problem with fucking MILK? You don't even have to kill and cook anything to get it. You're not going to change the food chain and diet of an entire species lasting tens of thousands to millions of years by doing this.
If you ever come or pass in Balkans, I'm legitimately asking you to try this here.
lmao I’ve visited the balkans many times, namely Bosnia and Croatia and never had any issues with being a vegan. You do realize there are vegans in the balkans right? Most people I met there were way more understanding of it than you seem to be, but I guess you think your region would beat up people for disagreeing. Sorry to disappoint you but your region is better than you.
All you do is weak appeals to nature and you even tried to justify your shitty view by invoking Jesus lmao.
You’re the one coming into a post specifically asking about how vegan communists could get together and antagonizing people, who is the one stirring shit up? I guess for you the only people that are nice are the people that don’t speak up about things they believe in. Are you a fucking centrist lib? "The only leftists I like are the ones that shut up about it" is a lib take comrade.
To educate you on milk as you apparently have never thought about how milk is produced, you do realize that mammals only produce milk when they have a baby right? Here’s how milk is produced in our society:
Killing is most of the process of producing milk. If you gave me the choice between being a dairy cow or a meat cow, I’d choose being a meat cow anyday of the week as at least the suffering would be lessened.
Vegans stealing chickens and letting them in the wild where they cannot survive because they were born in captivity? Well, there are utopian animal rights activists – some eco-anarchists maybe – who happen to be vegan, who also do this kind of stuff. Veganism itself isn't the problem here, but what it's attached to. Please don't roll the blame on vegans in general, we're a diverse bunch.
The very moment a vegan – or even just a plant-based person – outs themself they get asked questions which they've encountered way too often such as what you've presented here and pushed to being "normal" because humans "need" animal products. Literal forcing "you can take the meat out from the soup" and not offering reasonable plant-based food happens too especially to those who aren't in charge of the contents of their plate. I don't expect you to directly relate or understand the frustration it creates, but perhaps you can relate via some other connection? Surely vegans can be pushing back and forceful too, and many are like this especially in online spaces. I wouldn't say you've been forced here to become a vegan like vegans are pressured to become "normal", but rather your justifications for consuming animal products are questioned. My dear IRL comrade isn't a vegan and I've never pushed him to become one. However, I'll never let him get away with a half-baked piss poor justification, and that is a comradely thing to do. This is how I see this situation too.
In my long gone days of being a newbie vegetarian, I remember ridiculing some vegan for stating that "milk is murder". What a fool, right? Years later before I became a vegan I realised the fool had been me for not understanding dairy industry. There is no cows' milk without pregnancy and the milk is produced for calves. This means that cows must beremovedd to produce milk and their calf taken away from them. Most calves are killed for meat shortly after their birth. So even if you don't directly kill for milk, the calf here is a "by product" which cannot be kept around since it'd need that milk which is now taken from it for human consumption. This is how dairy industry operates and it surely requires killing calves and eventually their mothers when their bodies give up. Humans are not baby cows and milk must be processed before it's safe for human consumption. The whole idea that milk somehow is necessary for humans is dairy industry propaganda. For example in Finland there literally are propaganda posters in schools, so from a very young age people are brainwashed to believe that milk is essential for humans. And surely one kind of milk is essential: human mother's milk for human babies.
Then there is obviously the dairy farmer who isn't paid enough by the industry and relies on state subsidies. Prices are artificially kept low and dairy products keep their dominant position. Dairy industry not only exploits the cows, but also the farmer.
I don't think food chain could be changed by an insignificant population of vegans. We've gone from simple medieval farming of animals to industrialisation and commodification under capitalism. The very same capitalism that is fuelling climate change where animal agriculture plays a big role. What actually would be forcing the change is economy and climate change. This doesn't mean everyone will be vegan, but perhaps vast majority will eventually be once animal agriculture is phased out.
One thing that bothers me with topics about veganism is how they mainly circle around food and moral questions related to it. It'd be refreshing to see discussions that go beyond this who eats what and is it right or wrong.