What is everyone's thoughts on this? I think this kind of self-criticism and nuance is valuable, and a worthwhile exercise.

But I think it suffers from a framing problem. After presenting the nuances of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, re: Poland. Bad-mouse says "If you're hearing this and thinking 'anti-communism' you're missing the point".

But I don't get that impression from the facts, I get that impression from the way the facts are being framed. The facts are the facts, and we can, and should, have a fruitful, nuanced, discussion as to how the Soviet Union handled the national question in this period, whether the taking of certain parts of Poland after WW2 was just, relations with the Baltic states, etc.

But this isn't framed in that way. It's framed in an almost ultra-left, social-imperialism way, which is what leads me to react to this as anti-communist.

The Soviets anexxing a chunk of eastern Poland that roughly corresponded to what Imperial Russia took in the Third Partition should raise some eyebrows. For instance, it might lead us to ask how a socialist state, formed from a formerly feudal land empire might unwittingly inherit some forms of that old logic.

But that act, in and of itself, is not imperialism. It doesn't match Lenin's definition. Which, if we're doing leftist criticism, we should be using as some kind of standard. Calling it imperialism feels disingenuous.

  • vovchik_ilich [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    6 days ago

    Bullshit video. No sources anywhere, gets many claims outright wrong, and applies utopian ideas and morality to actually existing countries.

    Examples: the video talks of "the USSR pursuing an alliance with France and England for months" in 1939. That's patently bullshit, the USSR pursued the collective security policy since the start of the 1930s. The video goes on to claim that the deal only failed because the USSR requested too much, by offering to put 1 million troops in the borders of Poland and Romania, which Poland didn't want. Again, bullshit, wires from the ambassadors of Britain and France explicitly show that they were given orders not to make any mutual defense agreement already in 1939, and to just stall the conversations and pretend to be interested but without reaching an actual deal. The most likely reason for this was delaying a non-aggression agreement between USSR and Nazis, in order to see Nazis massacre the USSR.

    The video talks continuously of the Russian Empire and the USSR as if they were the same thing, as if "Poland has the right to be afraid of the Russians" (which is literal russophobic propaganda but oh well). It also mentions that it doesn't matter whether the lands taken from Poland after WW2 were made part of Ukraine and Belarus, because, after all, "they still were ruled from Moscow". Deep misunderstanding on soviet power structures, democracy, and especially policy against russification and in favour of local ethnicities for each republic.

    The video talks of all countries as if they were equally capable and developed, and ignores one of the most important dynamics of ww2: the power imbalance between countries. In the same way that Poland couldn't hold the advances of the industrial behemoth that was Nazi Germany for a week, the USSR had had up to 1939 a total of 11 years to industrialise since the first 5-year plan in 1928. Stalin himself said it in the late 20s (gonna quote out of my memory so bear with me): "we are 50 to 60 years behind in industrial development compared to western nations, if we don't make up for that difference in 10 years, they crush us". The video goes as far as saying that the moral thing would have been to unilaterally send troops to Poland under Polish command. Like, the Polish government, which had just agreed to a partition of Czechoslovak territories with the Nazis, and which itself had invaded the USSR not 20 years prior, was supposed to be given troops when it didn't even want to make a mutual defense agreement???!!! Who even is this YouTuber?

    Therein lies the main problem of this video: it's applying idealist moralities to real-life situations. The reality is the following: the USSR did IMMENSE sacrifice and managed to defeat Nazism in Europe. Taking the so-called "mistakes" such as deporting Polish opposition, invading Baltic countries, and disregarding the result of WW2 as if it hadn't been affected by such policy, is disingenuous. The reality is that when under siege socialism, hard decisions have to be made. The video goes as far as saying that "you can't claim to be the monopoly on progress at your highest moment, and insist upon relativism at your worst". What the fuck is this??!! Being progressive in times of peace and welfare, which is exactly when you're in the best position to do so, shows exactly your intentions. Being less idealistic during wartimes that end up with 27 million citizens dead, and that resulting in the defeat of fascism in Europe, maybe, just maybe, shows that in hard times, hard decisions have to be made? Basically, "because the USSR was a self-proclaimed socialist state, I will apply idealistic moral standards to it, and if it falls short of idealism regardless of the material and historical moment, I will consider it a failure".

    • Murple_27@lemmy.ml
      ·
      edit-2
      5 days ago

      Who even is this YouTuber?

      A "well-known" (within the extremely embryonic scene of 2016 breadtubers) ideology shopper.

      Therein lies the main problem of this video: it’s applying idealist moralities to real-life situations.

      That's BadMouse's entire MO. He has consistently bounced back & forth between Anarchist, Trotskyist, ML, & Radlib tendencies depending on whoever he thinks has the most compelling moral argument this week, for the last 8 years. He has absolutely no solid grasp on anything whatsoever.