For those that have poked around other fediverse stuff beyond Lemmy, and been around the spaces awhile, what's stuck out to you as stumbling blocks, or basic user experience fumbles? Which parts do you think may be technical, and which may be cultural?
netsplits/defederation.
You can't just tell someone to register for any server, and they will be able to see everything. So they then have to choose a server, which takes effort, and can cause analysis paralysis.
The ability to “float” between servers would go a long way to improve this. Make an account on one server, then come across another that you vibe with more, and single button press and you’ve transferred. All you subs, comment history etc are preserved (for overlapping federated servers). No idea how to implement this, but it feel achievable, perhaps with a quick step to set up a new password and username if it was taken.
- Lack of discoverability
- Poor moderation tools at all levels (admin, moderator, user)
- Lack of will to moderate at admin and moderator level
- Replication of topics on multiple instances (two different lemmy instances with their own /c/technology - one too busy to keep up with, the other just a lone person posting links every so often)
- Low effort content dominates some places making it difficult for an individual to find interesting content (see 1 and 2.user)
what’s stuck out to you as stumbling blocks, or basic user experience fumbles?
For Lemmy:
- Onboarding. Newcomers should not have to decide which instance to use. They know nothing to make that decision. An algorithm should make an educated guess. Even a random pick might be better than forcing them to choose. Manual choice should still be available as an advanced signup method, but the default should be as quick and simple as possible.
- Account Migration. The lack thereof only increases the pressure for making a good choice for your first instance. If we could easily migrate accounts, this would also ease the signup burden. 3rd party tools exist, but this should be a core feature.
- Discovery. There exist dozens of tools for discovering communities, which shows how bad the built-in search function is. This should be a core feature with no need for 3rd party tools. I should not have to care wether someone else from my instance already searched for the same community or wether I'm the first.
- Stream Aggregation. I signed up to loads of niche communities (which do get new posts), but never see any of those in my stream, no matter which mode I choose. I even started to unsubscribe from big communities to give smaller content a chance, to no avail. This effectively hides original and interesting content from view, and makes the overall experience more boring.
- Remote Instance Posts and Comments. When looking up a specific post or comment, I probably cannot do so while being logged in. Which means, I can read it, but cannot interact with it.
- Remote Instance Communities. When browsing the communities of another instance (for example, a themed instance like mander.xyz), I can only do so while being logged out. When I find an interesting community, I have to manually copy the link, search for it in another logged-in tab, find it again, to finally subscribe.
- Lack of Niche Content. It's getting better, but we still have a long way to go. This probably needs more general growth, but some technical aspects (like Stream Aggregation, Discovery and Remote Instance Browsing) also make it harder for niche communities to gain traction.
- GDPR Compliance. A private person and a public institution (which publishes educational content and videos) explicitly mentioned to me that they cannot join Lemmy since Lemmy cannot assure GDPR Compliance. I don't know wether that's true, just reporting the reason.
Overall, it still requires significant willingness to either accept missing features and content, or jump through technical hoops to regain some.
My experience on other fediverse platforms was similar, which most often resulted in me staying away from that particular service for now.
Onboarding. The fact that you have to choose an instance to join while creating an account is essentially forcing people to make a decision for which, unless they’ve done some reading, they’ll have no idea of the implications. It’s such a weird concept for new users - they have to know about a thing before they’ve had experience with a thing.
Even if it doesn’t really matter which instance you begin with, the experience will be different, and there’s a sense of “pressure” at the point of signup, which doesn’t exist outside of the Fediverse.
Even if it doesn’t really matter which instance you begin with, the experience will be different, and there’s a sense of “pressure” at the point of signup, which doesn’t exist outside of the Fediverse.
Would you not say it's more like it doesn't exist to the same degree? Not that that diminishes your point, mind, only that in my experience online I've found similar when it comes to other online communities, say when deciding different Discord servers to join and some requiring waiting, reacting to be able to chat, or more rarely, have 2 factor authentication enabled of all things.
Before that, and more a sign of my age I guess, it would have been different forums, different chat rooms, and the like. Each similar in basic functionalities, but different experiences and a different sense of "pressure" to each.
I don't think it's the same with Discord because you already know which server you want to join, even if there are hurdles.
With federated instances you are told they all do the same thing and that it doesn't matter, but in the same breath you're told there's still criteria to consider (number of users, location, some have a main theme etc.)
I know it's old, but MMO servers used to have this kind of criteria.
You would just a server next to you, speaking a language you did, with a reasonable amount of users
Once the fediverse gains significant traction there will be a huge coordinated media smear campaign to associate it with extremism, CP, violent crime, terrorism etc.. The "won't anyone think of the children" attack will be leveraged to ""regulate"" the fediverse (probably by legacy social media like Meta alongside the security state), aka transform it into regular old centrally controlled social media. Upload filters, encryption back doors, know your customer laws etc.. Non-regulated decentralized social media will be attempted to be made illegal, not sure if it will succeed.
So yeah eventually any true decentralized social media will have to move completely into the "darknet".
The biggest issues for me are:
- No centralisation means there's no canonical single source of truth.
- Account migration.
- Implementation compatibility.
No single source of truth leads to the weird effect that if you check a post on your instance, it will have different replies from those on a different instance. Only the original instance where it got posted will have a complete reply set--and only if there are no suspensions involved. Some of this is fixable in principle, but there are technical obstacles.
Account migration is possible, but migration of posts and follows is non-trivial, Also migration between different implementations is usually not possible. Would be nice if people could keep a distinction between their instance, and their identity, so that the identity could refer to their own domain, for example.
Last, the issue with implementation compatibility. Ideally it should be possible to use the same account to access different services, and to some extent it works (mastodon can post replies to lemmy or upvote, but not downvote, for example).
No centralisation means there’s no canonical single source of truth.
I don't think this is a bad thing. Having centralization leads to one narrative taking over the post. With more decentralization, there is a natural way for different kinds of conversation to take root.
Also, this is going to occur much more when people get the ability to block instances anyway.
Only the original instance where it got posted will have a complete reply set--and only if there are no suspensions involved.
that should not be true. if all the instances involved in a comment section are fully federated with each other, the comments are the same on all of those instances.
things get complicated when there is defederation involved.. but the base case is "everyone can see the same set of comments no matter the instance."
is this correct or there is more?
As far as I can tell, this is incorrect. If there's a post on instance A, a reply from instance B, and someone on instance C follows the OP on A but not the RP on B, they will only see the OP without the reply.
Source: I very often notice this because I run a single-user instance, and when I open a thread it's incomplete, lacking posts from instances that I have not suspended.
Lack of documentation.
Recent example is Firefish. I love the platform, and I'm okay with discovering stuff on my own, but I can get why other people can be lost without exhaustive documentation
I'm a little surprised across the responses so far that there's been no mention of the adoption of or migration to a fediverse platform of some prominent creatives or communities.
It's understandable why they haven't given many of the issues already mentioned thus far, but in terms of others jumping in to federated services, among the least technical stumbling blocks by far is probably the absence of those (or those communities) they'd like to continue following (or participating in) here. Some of that may fall under discoverability/onboarding & content or critical mass mentioned, but it still caught my eye that it wasn't specifically mentioned.
I suppose by its lack of specific mention this mightn't be seen as being as much of an issue?
There is this trend of mass downvoting your account if you disagree with political propaganda on any spectrum and they follow any instance. We need a workaround for mass downvoting.
