When it comes to subreddits, lemmy communities, and lemmy instances, the people enforcing the rules are the same people making the rules. To borrow from legal terminology, the legislative, executive, and judicial branches are the same. Mods and admins are judge, jury, and executioner. This gives them a lot of power and allows biases in the way they enforce the rules to go ignored.
When it comes to the reddit admins, however, and sitewide bans and content removal, the people enforcing the rules are employees. They report to a boss, and have to follow guidelines already established. The content policy has already been written, and changing it is a big deal. If a ban is unjust, it can be appealed using the rules. When biases in the ways the rules are enforced happen, it's easier to undo them. And I'm not saying it's easy, but on Lemmy, it's impossible. You can't even log into your account if you're banned, how are you supposed to appeal?
Reddit as a business has a great deal more power than any fediverse instance's mod teams. But ironically, the low ranking admins have less power to make bad decisions. And that's why I've noticed a consistent pattern that Reddit is better at moderating cases that are legally clear-cut, but emotionally controversial. On Lemmy, admins follow their feelings. On Reddit, people may have a lot of feelings, but the proletariat administration intern has had feelings beaten out of them, and they more often end up following the rules.
The way Reddit operates is soulless and horrible and capitalist, but... soul is where hatred comes from. You're less likely to find that in the workings of an unfeeling machine.
On Lemmy, admins follow their feelings. On Reddit, people may have a lot of feelings, but the proletariat administration intern has had feelings beaten out of them, and they more often end up following the rules.
Oh boy.
The way Reddit operates is soulless and horrible and capitalist, but... soul is where hatred comes from. You're less likely to find that in the workings of an unfeeling machine.
Wow. You should probably consider the possibility that our "feelings" are actually a major part of what makes us human.
I'm not an ecofascist, I'm not saying the human species, in terms of DNA and biology doesn't deserve to exist. It's the social construct of humanity and the culture. We need an otherkin revolution. We need people acting less like humans.
Even if this was as big an issue as you’re making it seem like it is, the answer is never “crawl back to suckle at the capitalist teat.”
Use your damn imagination. We have a much more direct ability to organize ourselves here. Shit, we don’t even need to be restricted by the code of Lemmy. If a large enough group agrees on a specific way to be organized and self-polices, what’s the difference? Rules only exist if people choose to follow them.
You don’t like how it’s working? Do it differently. Talk to people. Convince them your way makes more sense. But it sounds to me more like you just miss that sweet condensed spez milk.
Rules only exist if people choose to follow them.
Well, no. People aren't perfectly rational agents who always make correct decisions. They don't always know what the mods and admins are doing, and they can be biased. People join instances because of the vibes, most people don't even read the rules in the first place. And those who do have no guarantee the rules they read are the ones actually enforced, which is my core complaint here
I started writing a response, then I looked at some of your other comments.
Don't mind OP. Write it for the audience. I loved your first response and would appreciate to read more.
Are you advocating that we move back to Reddit? I am not going to do that.
And if you aren't advocating we move back to Reddit how do you want to solve this perceived problem?
(I am saying perceived because I don't see it as a problem because with the fediverse you have a choice about where you can be and what rules you have to follow, unlike Reddit. Meaning that there are still consequences if the users decide to leave.)
I don't have a planned out solution, but maybe one way to do it is to build in separation of the legislative and executive branches. Make two classes of moderator: rules writers and rules enforcers
I still don't think this solves the problem that you posed on emotions but thank you for at least proposing a solution instead of just pointing out a problem.
Since I don't see what you have suggested as a problem I don't think I have much more to add.
Dude, let me try to explain how this works in simple terms. If you are comparing platforms using political systems, then Reddit would be fascist regime with a strong version of the Führerprinzip - granted it's mostly a benevolent one, but if you piss off the Früher/CEO you get the stick (see what happened to the mods that rebelled). Lemmy is like a loose confederation of city states, each with its own system, ranging from anarchical to as dictatorial as Reddit, but all designed in a way that if you don't like how your local instance works you can just emigrate to another one. You are even free to make your own hut in the woods (run your own instance).
Based on this, choose where you want to be.
I really enjoy reading this answer. I just had a taste of „you can‘t save them all“ today and it feels great so see that we have such a great variety here. Have a good day!
You can’t even log into your account if you’re banned, how are you supposed to appeal?
Write an email, go to their Matrix or Discrod server. Try to reason with them and if you fail, well, maybe you shouldn't be on that instance due to different views on what is right and what is wrong. With reddit you can't jump to another reddit instance which is a disadvantage.
You can’t even log into your account if you’re banned, how are you supposed to appeal?
That's actually reasonable criticism (mods might not list other ways to contact them), i don't see an issue opened so why not open one?
Regarding the other stuff, Feel free to open an instance, but i doubt that people care about that stuff.
I believe the option to move with your account is in the works, right? I read something like that I believe.
There is more to this than moderation. Look at how Reddit handled third party access and how they will monetize content for their benefit that you created. How do you bring your voice to that debate? Here you can, on Reddit you can’t. I think the answer needs to be that nobody can be silenced. Yes they can be taken out of communities but they cannot be silenced. That is especially true in the nostr model. If enough people are bothered by what happened they can recreate the community or move to a different instance. It will happen eventually. This stuff is all too new right now to have good examples.
