Sorry for the short post, I'm not able to make it nice with full context at the moment, but I want to quickly get this announcement out to prevent confusion:
Unfortunately, people are uploading child sexual abuse images on some instances (apparently as a form of attack against Lemmy). I am taking some steps to prevent such content from making it onto lemm.ee servers. As one preventative measure, I am disabling all image uploads on lemm.ee until further notice - this is to ensure that lemm.ee can not be used as gateway to spread CSAM into the network.
It will not possible to upload any new avatars or banners while this limit is in effect.
I'm really sorry for the disruption, it's a necessary trade-off for now until we figure out the way forward.
To be fair, some of the rhetoric you all use makes your political compass difficult to navigate.
As I said, the question is welcome no matter how tedious I might personally find it, just like any question asked in good faith.
Complete aside: polcomp is a bad way of attempting to understand politics. It has no way of understanding Marxism.
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This is a cool bot!
That video could have easily been 5 minutes. Phweew.
Say something bad about communism.
off-topic
About "communism" itself? What is the scope here? Token criticism is meaningless but I will humor you: I dislike the Khmer Rouge.
I don't care to hear you say something bad about neoliberalism because it's the most prized action by anarcho-bidenists to say "NATO bad" and then agree with NATO about most of its enemies.
Everyone should be able to point out flaws in a system, as no system is perfect. Not even communism. So, point out the flaws in communism, in plain English.
Sure, heres some intro-level crit.
Marx was completely off base with his prediction revolution would arise from urban proleitaritized factory workers and intelligentsia in "developed" nations.
Historically, the majority of revolutions have come from rural agricultural workers in the most exploited colonial holdings.
Luckily, communist political theory didn't end with Marx.
What country has been a good example of communism working?
Edit: TLDR; China, Cuba, Vietnam. None of which I’d consider great places to live, or particularly in line with Socialism.
What I did learn is, hexbears like to team up for the kill, but trip all over themselves and land on their own… claws? Hilarity.
For the record, I’m a socialist, just not a troll.
In almost every single country it has been deployed in socialism provides a better physical quality of life when compared with capitalism at the same level of development.
And the names are? List form is preferred if you don’t mind.
List within the study and the classifications:
If this image doesn't display for you(because of the attacks) let me know and I'll find some other way to share it.
Here's an image of how the comparison shakes up:
Well, your article was from 1986, and this image lists the USSR… please, 2023 successful communist countries. List, text.
I am 100% certain that if you compared socialist countries today you would get the same result.
This is extremely obvious when you consider that despite obviously lower levels of development in countries like China, Cuba and Vietnam have higher life expectancy than America.
Not to mention that 21% of america is illiterate whereas literacy in socialist countries is consistently the highest in the world.
Any person doing even the most limited of critical thought about healthcare access, education and life expectancy can understand that socialist countries today would come out on top when compared to their capitalist counterparts that sit at the same level of development.
The fact that you just dismiss it with the USSR present in the data is odd. You are aware that rent in the USSR was 5% of your total income correct? I think your perspective and understanding of how people lived is not in line with reality, your confusion about this data is because you have fully bought into propaganda instead of getting a proper and measured idea about things. You are not immune to propaganda.
Life expectancy is your way to determine successful?
I’m not sure i’d really consider any of those places a good place to live. China is pretty crazy and jails people for talking about Winnie the Pooh. Is that your idea of government?
Cuba and Vietnam also have lower life expectancy than the US.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Look at Hong Kong kicking ass at #1 though. (Not exactly communist with all that love for the free market)
I think your info might be a bit out of date at this point.
But thanks for the chat.
Using wikipedia is dogshit, stop using it.
The World Bank data is here, which is the same data used in the study: https://datatopics.worldbank.org
The actual current data is:
USA: 77.28
Cuba: 77.57
Vietnam: 75.38
China: 78.08
Hong Kong is not a country, it is a city in China. Individual cities are not good examples of life expectancy when life expectancy of cities typically outperforms life expectancy of rural regions due to quicker access to life-saving medical facilities afforded by density. This is why you really shouldn't rely on Wikipedia for your understanding of anything. You should go to primary sources yourself instead of allowing editors to curate and present information for you.
Irony?
Worldbank.org
I don’t get the irony. Your data is either not found or decades old. Then you shut down Wikipedia, which has sources cited.
I can make an image to display whatever info I want. Your sources are poor, or biased.
Bro it's the world bank. If you can't access it that's a problem on your fucking side not the most reliable data source used in academia for nations on the fucking planet.
Holy fucking shit is this your first time even hearing about them? Do they teach anything in your schools at all?
https://i.imgur.com/kkmn4g2.jpg
So, http://youre.fullofsh.it
Nice try though.
Lmao, good work chief. You tried nothing and are proud af.
https://databank.worldbank.org/
Here, took me 10 seconds of googling to find the main directory. You'll have to type in the search parameters yourself, because im not as nice as Awoo.
Let me understand this… you send me a url that is invalid. Then you mock me because I can’t get an invalid link to work. Then, you correct yourself and blame the issue on me, and not you.
Oh and, you forgot to switch your account back.
Different user Lib, and no. I'm mocking you for being unable to do even the most trite bit of googling.
Why would I do someone else’s job for them? We should all pull our own weight, comrade.
Life expectancy has 0 results. What would you like me to search for?
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.FE.IN?locations=CN
Damn thats weird
Wait so it’s data.worldbank.org lol
What happened to databank.worldbank.org?
You guys love to give shit, but you’re tripping all over yourselves.
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You’re inflating my interest. They’re just unable to say “oh I gave you the wrong link, here is the right one.”
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If I gave bad url, you would have mocked me. You’re giving your comrade a break.
I will only put forth the amount of effort they do. If they can’t be bothered to check their work, I’m not going to be bothered to assist them in finding their own sources.
Either way, the data has nothing to do with the main topic, so I’m wondering how we got here. Adios.
Correct
I can’t tell if I love you or hate you.
Every accusation a confession
That doesn’t even make sense.
Also, blocked. Have a great night, nothing personal… just not into bear piles.
Fuck capitalism ✌️
It makes perfect sense- they're pointing out you're probably projecting your assumption of account swapping. Those two users are quite certainly different people with different posting habits and pretty significant history on our site.
It’s just funny how y’all flock.
There's a lot of us, and we're ideologically correct and happy to explain why.
Well, “correct” is relative and none of you seem to be willing to participate in a two-way conversation. It just ends up in failed attempts to “win” some kind of game I wasn’t aware we were playing.
I mean, this thread is a great example. I asked what countries are currently communist and successful (relative yes).
The answer included the USSR. They can’t even be bothered to know their own shit. And instead of going “oops, my bad,” like an adult, it escalates and they all sniff it out and pile on.
Honestly, most people find hexbears pretty funny (like funny sad). And when questioned on specific views, they sound very NOT communist.
I have to remind myself, hexbears are just the LEFTY extremist trolls and their methods are identical to righty extremist trolls, and to not feed the bear. (But it’s so fun to watch you all dodge questions)
For the record, I’m very left. Socialist even. Not so much communist, but we share a lot of ideas. I also believe trolling the left pushes them further center, and it is counterproductive outside of your own instance.
That is a hilarious take since I've read through it and found that you will weasel away from the issue at every possibility, including pretending not to know how the internet works. It's quite disingenuous and I'm sure that passers-by reading the exchange will come to the same conclusion.
I made myself pretty clear. The url didn’t work, and it’s not my job to find their sources after supplying my own that was disliked.
They weaseled out of my questions, so I don’t see a need to give theirs any interest.
I see you just weaseled away from everything else I said. So, your attempt at insult appears to be you looking in a mirror.
I don’t need to convince you. I know trolls won’t ever back down, even when wrong. You all have identical flawed arguments and methods of attack. I find it quite entertaining how exactly the same you all are.
But, as long as you’re not voting for the righties, I can’t really hate you. 🤷♂️
honestly, the "nuh uh, YOU" responses are too good, it's like just admitting that you're outclassed and won't bother to engage
I agree, they did that.
"nuh uh YOU" again
flawless
The awesome part is that’s what you’re doing. ❤️
I love the argument style of trolls. It’s all whatabout, and bombarding. I like to just let it play itself out. The only person who cares is them.
I bet you can’t even tell me what we all were originally talking about without making up something that eventually turns into an insult. That’s the tactic of a troll, never get to the point.
That's literally not what you just linked to lol. It's what I linked to sure. But you know how to type in a basic URL instead of a subdomain that's only used for certain links.
The url error on my part is irrelevant. You're pretending to be internet illiterate for the sake of defending a position you already know can't be defended. This is what you people always do, rather than accept that any real analysis of human conditions under socialism vs capitalism does not support capitalism you deflect.
Please provide a link to your source that a person can click and get the info. Check your URL before sending.
Also, please stop trying to gaslight me. If you can’t provide actual data—just leave.
You are not a moron, stop pretending to be. You know how to use the internet. You don't "win" by saying "please provide a link". It's there on the worldbank site, look it the fuck up and stop resorting to debatebro redditisms. If you spoke like this to someone in person they would punch you in the face.
Pull your weight, comrade. You cite a source link, make it work. Don’t be lazy.
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I can’t. Blocked. Too many of you all at once. Blocking you too cause you’re just coming in for seconds.
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Anyone that uses this to navigate politics is themselves politically illiterate.
Ahhh yes, someone who cannot read between the lines to understand the true meaning. Thank you for this wonderful example.
"I'm scared of having my political illiteracy exposed and dunked on so I only ever write intentionally vague responses."
I felt it was pretty understandable. We can have a nice conversation, or we can stop. Up to you.
Say something that isn't vague and useless then.
Kill the rich.
Which ones? There are plenty of rich working class people that I consider comrades. The issue we socialists have isn't income, the issue is class, which is quite different.
Your class is determined not by your income but by how you receive your income. A working class person makes their income by selling their labour to a member of the bourgeoisie (capital-owner), whereas a member of the bourgeoisie makes their income by stealing the surplus labour from a member of the working class.
There are working class people that can make quite a bit of money. Athletes and actors for example. Although in many cases once people make that kind of money they also become members of the bourgeoisie by investing it in passive income such as landlording or stocks, that is not true of all of them and is very much something that should not be assumed.
As for killing the bourgeoisie, I am in favour of simply phasing them out. Although I am not naive enough to think that they will just allow that to happen without trying to kill every last one of us first to prevent it, and believe in the need for us to be prepared for violent action when they do turn to that option. It is not an act that I think should be advocated for by itself, other than with some hefty layers of irony as a means of generally promoting militancy.
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Do consider a person with $500,000,000 USD to be a comrade?
There is a certain level of worth that is unobtainable without being a horrible human.
It depends entirely upon how it is obtained.
Generally you are correct that a certain level of worth is unobtainable without being a horrible human but not always. As I said, there are many athletes who are working class despite earning many tens of millions.
I very much consider Muhammed Ali a revolutionary comrade for example.
Then there is Maradona. An incredible comrade who has Fidel Castro's face tattoo'd to his leg and Che's on his arm. Who did incredibly important work for socialism in latin america.
You should focus less on their total income and more on how it is made. Class is what matters, and while class generally forms along the lines of rich vs poor this is a reductive simplification of marxist thought.
I mean... Herrenknecht has a revenue of roughly 1.2bn Euro, value is estimated at 800mn. Sure he hired tons of people and he's conservative, but Martin Herrenknecht legitimately built that thing, both the engineering and business side and seems well-liked enough by his employees.
And if we wants to drive a Porsche and live in a mansion I'd say fucking go for it. Now, OTOH, inheriting that kind of thing... Herrenknecht Junior practically grew up in the company and is a natural candidate for leadership, the company is now owned by a family foundation and there's where my issues start: We'll have a dynasty, profit gets siphoned off and paid out to the family. Would've much rather see them go the way of Bosch or Zeiss which are actual foundations, similar setup to e.g. Mozilla.
Its really not complicated.
Just communist/anarchist/far more left than normal western discourse with a large amount of cynicism.