Hey, that's cool. I've also read Fanon and I don't think it contradicts my point of revolution within the imperial core. But even then idk what plastering a fucking hammer and sickle and tagging shit will accomplish aside from some punk aesthetic statement, but hey, if you wanna be on the level of punk anarchists, 'we' can vibe.
I'm not mad at graffiti, I just don't think graffiti is a particularly good use of time, money, or energy for any organization. Particularly slogans such as 'Elections no, Revolution Yes!' won't speak to anyone outside the choir. I'm on board bud, but I was already on board.
That's a fair point, but it's besides what my point is. If the goal is simply 'Use a red can of spray paint and vent my frustration' then this would be successful. But if the goal is furthering the cause of revolution or convincing people to join your side, I'm gonna have to put some big question marks on the effectiveness of this tactic.
Ok, but unless you are actually gaining members for your organization due to this tactic, then this is all (ironically) pure advertising ideology. People can share things online for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't mean they agree with you.
And if you are doing things simply to spite chuds, that is good and cool I guess, but using chuds as a general barometer for if a tactic is effective against the actual state is useless, otherwise you are just fighting culture wars.
'Rebellion works', you keep using these words broadly. Do you think tagging is an act of rebellion?
If you would stick to reading through the thread and replying on a single thread as opposed to replying to me multiple times, that would be cool, thanks.
You can't measure it. That's the problem. Well, you can measure the effectiveness of messaging tactics regarding tagging by asking people who joined your organization if they joined because they saw the tags. Or measuring the growth of your organization based prior to a tagging campaign vs. after.
However, measuring the effectiveness of a tactic in a culture war is by definition non-materialist, which is why it is a waste of time, and not something imo leftists, particularly organized marxist leftists, should focus on. Leave the culture war to the libs and chuds, focus on the material inequality within your community and inject theory into the cracks as you seek to assuage what harm you can. Revolution, imo, will likely not come from the imperial core as the security state has far too much power.
I will agree with you, tags do less harm than voting for Joe Biden. But that's a fucking low bar to clear. Yet, tagging does clearly harm your organization's PR, primarily with other 'leftists' (e.g. many of the people in this thread). But hey, they're not 'real leftists', because they think this shit doesn't really do anything, right?
Fair, but you paint an interesting tag and people share it saying 'omg cant beelive what those anarchists did', and forget about it in a week, then it's about the same... and you deleted it.
True, but also, generally speaking, I don't need to spend time talking about how psychedelic usage is generally an ineffective movement builder to younger members. It's generally understood as an indulgence and not a revolutionary act in of itself.
That being said I don't have a problem with tagging, particularly that which expresses individual artistry in the public sphere. I do have issues with organizations that use this type of sloganeering as their entry point. It leads to bad brain shit that confuses people about matierialist philisophy and what needs to be done. This shit is at a lower level than pamphlets and newspapers in terms of communicating ideas.
Hey, that's cool. I've also read Fanon and I don't think it contradicts my point of revolution within the imperial core. But even then idk what plastering a fucking hammer and sickle and tagging shit will accomplish aside from some punk aesthetic statement, but hey, if you wanna be on the level of punk anarchists, 'we' can vibe.
Getting mad at graffiti? I don’t think we’re really on the same side tbh
I'm not mad at graffiti, I just don't think graffiti is a particularly good use of time, money, or energy for any organization. Particularly slogans such as 'Elections no, Revolution Yes!' won't speak to anyone outside the choir. I'm on board bud, but I was already on board.
It dont do any harm though, I'd argue its at least several times more useful than voting for biden.
what’s a better use of a can of red spray paint
That's a fair point, but it's besides what my point is. If the goal is simply 'Use a red can of spray paint and vent my frustration' then this would be successful. But if the goal is furthering the cause of revolution or convincing people to join your side, I'm gonna have to put some big question marks on the effectiveness of this tactic.
it’s very effective.
People take pictures of it and then post it on the internet.
Chuds are spraypainting revolutionary slogans on their own garages - fighting an imaginary war with make-believe Maoists, and losing it
Yes, rebellion works, and spraypainting more Maoist slogans on things is cool and good
Ok, but unless you are actually gaining members for your organization due to this tactic, then this is all (ironically) pure advertising ideology. People can share things online for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't mean they agree with you.
And if you are doing things simply to spite chuds, that is good and cool I guess, but using chuds as a general barometer for if a tactic is effective against the actual state is useless, otherwise you are just fighting culture wars.
'Rebellion works', you keep using these words broadly. Do you think tagging is an act of rebellion?
I think all rebellion is good
yes tagging revolutionary slogans in public places is cool and we should do more of it
Also culture wars are good and I fight them daily, and wish to provoke more of them
You still haven't addressed my points, and you seem to keep deflecting, but this is probably a misccommunication on my end, so I'll be direct.
Are people joining your organization due to reading tagged messages?
How do you measure the effectiveness of a tactic in fighting the culture war?
To your organization (or you), is the effectiveness of a tactic in fighting the culture war a barometer for fighting actual state power?
Do you think rebelling against the mass line is inherently good?
How would you even measure that shit? It doesnt do any harm so what's the problem?
If you would stick to reading through the thread and replying on a single thread as opposed to replying to me multiple times, that would be cool, thanks.
You can't measure it. That's the problem. Well, you can measure the effectiveness of messaging tactics regarding tagging by asking people who joined your organization if they joined because they saw the tags. Or measuring the growth of your organization based prior to a tagging campaign vs. after.
However, measuring the effectiveness of a tactic in a culture war is by definition non-materialist, which is why it is a waste of time, and not something imo leftists, particularly organized marxist leftists, should focus on. Leave the culture war to the libs and chuds, focus on the material inequality within your community and inject theory into the cracks as you seek to assuage what harm you can. Revolution, imo, will likely not come from the imperial core as the security state has far too much power.
I will agree with you, tags do less harm than voting for Joe Biden. But that's a fucking low bar to clear. Yet, tagging does clearly harm your organization's PR, primarily with other 'leftists' (e.g. many of the people in this thread). But hey, they're not 'real leftists', because they think this shit doesn't really do anything, right?
deleted by creator
Fair, but you paint an interesting tag and people share it saying 'omg cant beelive what those anarchists did', and forget about it in a week, then it's about the same... and you deleted it.
counterpoint: graffiti owns
So does punk rock, but neither of them are particularly heroic revolutionary actions.
deleted by creator
True, but also, generally speaking, I don't need to spend time talking about how psychedelic usage is generally an ineffective movement builder to younger members. It's generally understood as an indulgence and not a revolutionary act in of itself.
That being said I don't have a problem with tagging, particularly that which expresses individual artistry in the public sphere. I do have issues with organizations that use this type of sloganeering as their entry point. It leads to bad brain shit that confuses people about matierialist philisophy and what needs to be done. This shit is at a lower level than pamphlets and newspapers in terms of communicating ideas.
yes
Pointless.
these posts count as graffiti
So even less effective than actual graffiti?
More graffiti: better
Poo Poo Pee Pee
Elections no, Revolution yes!Lol right on
deleted by creator
deleted by creator