and some reading material for capitalism stans on here

  • https://ia800309.us.archive.org/26/items/fp_Killing_Hope-US_Military_and_CIA_Interventions_Since_WWII-William_Blum/Killing_Hope-US_Military_and_CIA_Interventions_Since_WWII-William_Blum.pdf
  • https://archive.org/details/JakartaMethod
  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
    hexagon
    ·
    1 year ago

    Nobody thinks that Russia is communist. However, whatever you want to call China, it's objectively better than what we have in the west. One thing to note though is that 87.6% of young Chinese identify with Marxism, and the Communist party has 95 million members.

    China lifted 800 million out of poverty, and in fact China is the only place in a world where any meaningful poverty reduction is happening. If we take China out of the equation poverty actually increased in real terms:

    If we take just one country, China, out of the global poverty equation, then even under the $1.90 poverty standard we find that the extreme poverty headcount is the exact same as it was in 1981.

    The $1.90/day (2011 PPP) line is not an adequate or in any way satisfactory level of consumption; it is explicitly an extreme measure. Some analysts suggest that around $7.40/day is the minimum necessary to achieve good nutrition and normal life expectancy, while others propose we use the US poverty line, which is $15.

    China also massively invests in infrastructure. They used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century, they built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade.

    90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans.

    Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it's the most populous country on the planet. People in China also enjoy high social mobility.

    Unsurprisingly, government satisfaction in China is extremely high and unmatched by any western democracy:

    • https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2021/0218/Vilified-abroad-popular-at-home-China-s-Communist-Party-at-100
    • https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resilience-surveying-chinese-public-opinion-through-time

    Numerous studies and surveys also show that people who actually live in China feel their country is democratic in a sense of having a government that works in the interest of the majority. In fact, far higher percentage of people living in China feel their system is democratic than those living in US

    • https://latana.com/democracy-perception-index/
    • https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-26/which-nations-are-democracies-some-citizens-might-disagree

    Finally, China is the only major country that's actually doing anything meaningful to transition off fossil fuels. Once again, making absolutely stunning progress this year alone.

    So, yeah, China might not be an utopia, and they have plenty of problems. However, it is a country where life continues to improve with each and every decade, that doesn't suffer from constant economic crashes the way capitalist shitholes do, and where people are happy and optimistic about the future. Seems like looking at what China is doing and learning from that might be a good start for people in the west.

    It’s also fascinating to me how the same people who like to do purity tests for China claiming they’re not actually communist are also the ones who’ll defend places like US or Canada saying yeah it’s not perfect, but it’s the ideal of the system that matters.

    It’s such an incredible example of cognitive dissonance. People able to recognize that their own system doesn’t live up to the ideal they have in their heads, but still treat it as a valid interpretation of the idea, but when it comes to a system they dislike then the same logic doesn’t apply all of a sudden.

    • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
      ·
      1 year ago

      i think your projecting something here or making a deliberate strawman, read my first sentence again and tell me where I am "able to recognize that [my] own system doesn’t live up to the ideal [i] have in [my] heads, but still treat it as a valid interpretation of the idea, but when it comes to a system [i] dislike then the same logic doesn’t apply all of a sudden."

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
        hexagon
        ·
        1 year ago

        Nobody is projecting anything here or making ant strawman. You made a false equivalence claiming that both US and China are bad. I gave you concrete examples of China continuously improving lives of its people, and being pretty much the only place in the world where major quality of life improvements are happening for the majority. If you can't understand that, then what else is there to tell you.

        • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Do you think China is a Marxist utopia? Because if not I don't know why you are so butthurt by my comment, if yes my point stands.

          Not sure what you are trying to proof here, to me it seems like you have two simple categories in your head: "pro me" and "anti me" and you assume everyone in the same category must be the same. I remotely mention that I don't think China is heaven on earth and you start to talk about how I must be mentally derailed or something.

          I think calling the us democratic is far fetched, butcallingg China democratic is not very close to the truth either.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
            hexagon
            ·
            1 year ago

            Nah I don't think China is an utopia. I just think it's far better than what US offers. If you can't understand that one thing can be better than the other without either being some sort of an utopia, what else is there to say.

            • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              If you cant understand that

              "People who think China is a communist utopia are idiots"

              And

              "There is NO good aspekt of China AT ALL"

              Are two different sentences and you don't need to start calling me mentally derailed or make site long fanboy essays about China, what else there is to say?

                • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  This you?

                  It’s such an incredible example of cognitive dissonance. People able to recognize that their own system doesn’t live up to the ideal they have in their heads, but still treat it as a valid interpretation of the idea, but when it comes to a system they dislike then the same logic doesn’t apply all of a sudden.

                  As is said, it seems like you are working with only two categories in your head: "pro China" and "pro us"

                  That one can criticise one of them without liking the other doesn't seem to fit in your head

                  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
                    hexagon
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Yeah that's me, and being able to recognize that one system is a better option than the other has nothing to do with the straw man you keep making. It seems like you're having a really hard time wrapping your head around the concept that one thing can be preferable to another without either being perfect.

                    • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      1 year ago

                      OK, so you recognise what you said, still you cant find the mistake and keep thinking you are making a point.

                      I give up, you cant be reasoned with...

                      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
                        hexagon
                        ·
                        1 year ago

                        Yeah, please give up on pretending you were trying to reason. What you were doing was making a transparent straw man and ignoring what I told you. That's just lazy trolling.

                      • Nakoichi [they/them]
                        ·
                        1 year ago

                        Your entire account is just an unhealthy obsession with "tankies" and refusing to engage in good faith in any of your comments. Piss off.

                        You're literally the smug liberal this meme is making fun of.