Excerpt:
Most major subreddits show a decrease of between 50 and 90 percent in average daily posts and comments, when compared to a year ago. This suggests the problem is way fewer users, not the same number of users browsing less. The huge and universal dropoff also suggests that people left, either because of the changes or the protests, and they aren’t coming back.
Because the most active contributing users left. I used to comment a lot on reddit, but I've been exclusively on Lemmy since my 3rd party app was axed.
And I've been very active here. Like, even on this alt account that I made 16 days ago, my app says my post "karma" is already higher than my reddit comment karma was from over a decade.
I feel more willing to contribute because there's a sense of community, and I'm not just providing free entertainment for a company to profit off of.
I've commented more on lemmy in 3 months than the last 10 years on Reddit
Shit. I think it took me 5 years on reddit to comment once. Now I have alts! Alts!
I used to comment a lot on reddit
Same. I had a 15 year account with a couple hundred thousand karma and commented and posted a lot. If you piss off the people who actually use the site you will reap what you sow. Reddit should have known that since the exact scenario happened fir Digg when everyone migrated to reddit.
They looked at the leaves, and failed to see the forest, thinking that simply not killing old.reddit was enough to avoid Digg-ing the grave. Because from their view that's how Digg died - v4 happened, users couldn't go back, they got pissy, and they left.
@megane_kun@lemm.ee is also right when he says that they compared Reddit with other social media platforms and took the wrong conclusions. What keeps people in Facebook aren't "content creators" or what have you, but their relatives and friends; in Reddit there's no such thing, people weren't there because of more people but because of the content that those people created, so their connection with the platform is considerably weaker.
I also think that the trust thermocline played a role. It wasn't the first time that the platform pissed its own users.
Agreed on the reasons why FB stayed relatively strong despite its reputation going down the drain. What kept many people from leaving FB for good is actually network effects: that one's friends and family, coworkers and colleagues, are more likely to be in FB than not in it. Huffman's site? Not so much. I don't care if someone I know IRL is in it, and I sure as hell wouldn't want them to know I used it.
The platform formerly known as Twitter is a more apt comparison, to be honest, but it's still way too early to tell if it has actually weathered the storm, or has become so rotten on the inside that it'd spectacularly fail in the near future.
Perhaps Twitter is a third can of worms, it's neither about content (as Reddit) nor the users' social circles (as FB), more like a few anchor people keeping the others there. Due to that Musk's idea (to pay creators to stay there) might actually help.
I still think that it'll fail due to other decisions Musk took, but less spectacularly than Reddit. Musk is at least trying to think by himself, Spez is simply following others.
I think Steve Huffman is only after the possible profits he'd make on the IPO. He doesn't care if his reputation would be sullied amongst the proles like us, nor does he care if he's being original and ground-breaking. He just cares about the money.
Will it work though? I want to bet on the possibility that his IPO will fail due to all the bad news about his site as of recent, but given that the world in general has been disappointing recently, I'll just keep my money to myself, lol!
He is after the IPO money but Dunning-Kruger is the hell of a drug, Spez is simply not a good CEO and he doesn't know how to maximise pre-IPO numbers. So odds are that he thought "who's in the same situation as me? Ah, The Iron Man¹! He's a cool guy, has lots of money and a platform like mine. I assume that he knows what he is doing², so I'll ape what he did!". Musk killed 3PAs and got rid of the people criticising his platform, so did Spez.
And killing 3PAs pre-IPO does actually have some merit. They created value³ for Reddit, but detracted from the immediate profit; but if you're selling the company you don't care about the value, you care about the immediate profit to show your potential buyers "see? This company is profitable, gib lotsa moni". However odds are that things happened faster than Spez predicted, odds are that he assumed that the protests would last a bit and die, not that people would say "enough of this shit". And now odds are that he lost that "magical" window of opportunity to maximise Reddit's price to the potential new buyers.
- I cringed writing this.
- Spoilers: Musk does not know what he's doing.
- By "value" here I mean the potential of a company to generate profit over time.
Hahahaha~ If it's any consolation to you, I also cringed reading the part that made you cringe while writing it. More than enough cringe for all of us to share around!
Yeah, you actually said out loud what I was just thinking to myself when I wrote my previous reply. Not exactly what you wrote, but I was thinking that if it worked for others, it's good enough for himself. Why think of a good idea when you can just copy others'? Something along those lines. However, copying ideas actually does take some work as well. It's not enough to just copy what they did and apply it to your situation. You've also got to think about whether or not what you're copying is a good fit for your circumstances.
About the third point though, the way I see it is that Huffman tried his best (the key word is ‘tried’) to increase the profitability of his site to entice potential buyers, which even though it'd detract from immediate profitability, would add to the money he'd cash out at the IPO in the end—or so he imagines. Agreed with how things didn't happen according to how Steve anticipated them though. And in fairness to Huffman, other flareups have ended in a similar way. What he didn't anticipate is how these changes (the API changes) will affect how a lot of people (and the ones that contribute a lot of content) would interact with his site. So, yeah!
I'm always happy to see a Teft post pop up in my feed.
It's easy to argue why they thought it's not going to happen to them. They saw Facebook shrug off all of its scandals, and thought that being in a similar position, network effects are going to help them weather any storm. And it can be argued that Steve Huffman and his site did weather this particular storm. But like Facebook, trust in Huffman's site have taken a blow, and in the demographic that they would ill afford to antagonize.
That we're starting to see its effects as early as now should scare any sane person in Huffman Inc.
Wow I was on there longer than you and I don't think I broke 10k haha
I know the ways of karma farming. It ain't much but it's an honest living.
For Lemmy?
Some apps add it up for you. One of the apps I use frequently is Voyager (on Android), and it shows it on the profile page.
For example, here's yours: (I assume I can't see 100% of the votes though, in case your instance is federated with any that mine's not"
*removed externally hosted image*
I wrote an extension for firefox that shows your collective karma so I was wondering if you were using it, this is cool as well
Oh that's cool. I may have to check that out on desktop.
I'm going to update it to show youe comment/post karma separately when I get my computer fixed
Well definitely make a post when you do! I bet a lot of people would be interested in it.
I made a post, they hated it man 😭 I got like the same number of downvotes as upvotes
Aww, yeah some people really hate the idea of "karma" because it's just useless internet points, but early reddit knew what they were doing by adding them. It encourages engagement when monke brain sees number go up.
I say that it's harmless fun.
I never thought it would be so easy to stop going on Reddit, but this place is good enough
Do you think there is something inherent to the reddit-format that promotes toilet scrolling? I think so.
Content creators left.
You lose those, you're fucked. A full fckin 80-90% of any given user base are consumers / commenters and they follow content. Creators are a keystone species.
Yeah. Reddit seemed to view users like every other social media app without realizing that a lot of the successful apps compensate those who add value to the app.
The official app seems ok for consuming content, but it was dogshit for meaningful interaction.
The completely unblockable hegetsus ads were really what made me switch to Apollo from the official Reddit app. Then killing third party apps made me leave for good. Bravo, Reddit
I totally forgot about hegetsus until now.
We were having a good day.
We were ALL having a good day.
If you open Reddit without an account on a browser, it will automatically create a username for you when you are on site now. Hopped on to look at a post on a semi active subreddit and saw I was somehow logged in, but it was an auto generated account name. Wonder if they are trying to boost numbers that way as well
You have to remember that APIs were used massively by third party apps users.
I don't see a reason to attribute the API related drop more to automation than users stopping browsing reddit because third party app ban.
If you're trying to sneakily manipulate karma and content, you don't want to be doing it through the API, you want it to look like legitimate users so it doesn't get blocked. This usually means some kind of browser automation.
Of course, reddit does so little to combat it, maybe there really were sleazy astro-turfing botnets just accessing the site through the API.
Back in like 2018, reddit posted some user stats, including a list of "most addicted cities". They forgot to scrub the results and Eglin Airforce Base was the top rank.
The fact that it wasn't blocked implies reddit admins are OK with the airforce's botfarm, and would allow them to use the API.
If I recall correctly (I might be wrong), July/11 was when the 3PAs stopped working. Regardless of that I don't think that those karma farms relied on the API, because as @PoliticalAgitator said they want to avoid shadowbanning.
However, if we follow your reasoning, it's still a fucking dumb move from Reddit Inc. to kill what made the place active. The issue with bots was never their usage, but rather that they went unmarked, pretending to be human beings [re]posting stuff.
AI bots will keep it afloat till they IPO, then comes the long downward slide once admins get their bag and jump ship. Legit was going to invest before they started making all the wrong decisions. Gonna be a massive shorting opportunity.
There's very little engagement to be had from the site anymore. There's a narrow range of acceptable discourse, and anyone going off message is quickly censored.
The news subreddits got hit worst of all. It's pure propaganda , and you can only read so many comments about the great Biden economy and the removed Russian orc before your eyes start to glaze over.
I would probably still post on reddit if I could do it from my phone in an app that actually works instead of being a glorified ad platform. They killed 3rd party apps to bully users to switch to the official app to boost the usage stats to have a better angle to haggle for their IPO. Problem is that the official app is just excruciatingly painful to use if you are accustomed to a proper reddit browsing tool.
The backhanded, sneaky way they did it with all the denial and lies was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Instead of being upfront and calling a spade a spade, they commited to a hostile takeover and removed all doubt that reddit is going to stay a platform for the people.
If they would have been honest from the get-go I might have continued posting.
All the people on r/piracy there better jump ship before Reddit sells all their info to Big Brother
Yeah I went to subredditstats.com and checked out a few of the subreddits with a lot of subscribers. They all show a huge drop both in number of comments and number of posts per day. This is the first time I saw some hard evidence that people have moved away, and it's a lot more than I thought.
Outside to touch some grass. Or replaced it with another vice like lemmy. :)
It looks like a lot more people left Reddit than joined Lemmy or the other Reddit alternatives. I reckon most people who left didn't actually seek out an alternative and are just spending more time on Facebook/Tiktok/forum sites etc. Or they might be being productive with the time that they would've otherwise spent on Reddit lol.
Likely Discord, playing games, outside... a few perhaps to oldschool forums.
I know one of my friends is using dedicated forums like stack overflow now
Private chat rooms has been my guess for a number of years. The internet got too public. Big boards aren't practical anymore.
Tbh I think the vast majority of people that use these sites are just there to mindlessly scroll. I do imagine a lot of their reactions to the protests was to be pissed at the weird basement dwellers disrupting their porn/aww/etc feeds
More than anything, the fact that Reddit absolutely quadruple-downed on steering people to their garbage app at the same time probably drove a lot of that crowd away. I regard it like
TwitterX now: just another rotting, closed-off corporate theme park - and I refuse to believe any content I hit a login wall after getting linked to is important enough to deal with their shit.be pissed at the weird basement dwellers disrupting their porn/aww/etc feeds
LOL - I think this is a very apt description. For every person that has left, there are a dozen more like this. Couldn't care less that 4 of the 5 top posts are reposted tiktok videos.
