Workers talk about losing their jobs, tech workers get uncomfortable and insist that the lost jobs were not real jobs unlike their jobs that may very well be next. "Maybe you shouldn't have gotten into the humanities where a decade later you might get replaced by new slop machines, which will totally not happen to my coding job ever ever ever. The slop machines are liberating and will revolutionize the world if you stop complaining about losing your not real job and wait long enough. We're all in this together."
Yeah, one of my critiques of LA/PMO conceptions of tech workers having different class interests or being a new class is that...well...their aristocracy isn't. It's extremely conditional and the Bourgoisie has an interest in removing it. It's all false consciousness boosted by a larger paycheck.
On the other hand dismissing the real poverty of the lower ranks of the working classes is also a real problem. Wealthy workers have a responsibility to contribute more to the left, not whine about how they're also poor struggling exploited proletarians
youre being obtuse. the issue is saying "we're all workers" in order to dismiss peoples valid concerns and experiences. Obviously tech workers are still workers. their workers just privileged has hell, and they generally need to learn when to shut up and listen.
Is that the issue? Because when I consider myself in the same boat as poorly paid workers, it’s to support their — and my — rights, benefits and security.
It's a blurry line and I don't know where to draw it between people paid to do lower level tech tasks for tech corporations on one end and on the other highly paid and connected and privileged "code ninjas" or whatever the techbros call them this week.
Maybe differentiate between poverty and workers rights?
I’m in a good job and have no idea about living in poverty. Without my job and state support I would last some months, maybe a year. Long Covid could take me out easily. I am privileged by having a good job, but when head’s comes to tail I am in the same boat as any other workers.
Honestly I don’t really understand what OP is trying to say.
the main point is that leftists belonging to privileged groups are not immune to chauvinism, bigotry, and unexamined privileged thinking, and when someone criticizes them for it their response should be to shut the fuck up and listen instead of getting defensive or accusing them of dividing the left.
I didn't get the first point cuz labor aristrocracy by definition is not pretending to be on the left, nor talking to the poor proles, and a lot nor even considering themselves "a prole". Plus most have the oppprtunity to become petty burshwá.
No but if you have a boat that keeps you afloat for a year and especially if you know it, you have a lot more room to manouver than someone like me whose boat would instantly sink. It gives you more space even before anything happens to you so the difference is there all the time.
It's like saying falling from a cliff has the same result regardless of how high it is. We are both on a cliff, but it's not the same one.
The thing about poverty is that there are no error margins on anything. It strips you of good choices and ends up forcing you to make expensive and oppressive choices in ways that is impossible to explain to someone who has never been poor, and that is how we are different.
I don’t know how much to differentiate. Do the working poor need the same help as those who can’t work? Probably not. My guess is they benefit more from adequate wages and job security than state support. Those are things that I want for myself, too, regardless how much I currently need it.
Do you then go around claiming that working poor and those who’re unable to work are not in the same boat?
Well I work with unemployed folks and while the stuggle is similar it is again a very different boat in terms of agency and how well it stays afloat. So yes, it's going to be a different boat even if it is a more similar one.
I suppose my point is that while all of these are workers, their conditions (level of privilege) is different and therefore while they are the same in one way they are different in others. Maybe if we look at it on a macrolevel we can focus on the sameness, but on a microlevel and in everyday power the differences dictate the lives of people in ways that can't be reduced to being in the same boat.
where does that leave @UlyssesT@hexbear.net's vague feel-good notion of solidarity?
I don't actually know.
The best I can do is say that some tech workers are still workers, but I'd have to find a line to draw between "just trying to survive" and "actively making the world worse for the sake of nerd rapture."
Workers talk about losing their jobs, tech workers get uncomfortable and insist that the lost jobs were not real jobs unlike their jobs that may very well be next. "Maybe you shouldn't have gotten into the humanities where a decade later you might get replaced by new slop machines, which will totally not happen to my coding job ever ever ever. The slop machines are liberating and will revolutionize the world if you stop complaining about losing your not real job and wait long enough. We're all in this together."
Yeah, one of my critiques of LA/PMO conceptions of tech workers having different class interests or being a new class is that...well...their aristocracy isn't. It's extremely conditional and the Bourgoisie has an interest in removing it. It's all false consciousness boosted by a larger paycheck.
On the other hand dismissing the real poverty of the lower ranks of the working classes is also a real problem. Wealthy workers have a responsibility to contribute more to the left, not whine about how they're also poor struggling exploited proletarians
I have long maintained that tech workers are still workers and solidarity with workers is necessary for leftists.
Some tech workers make that very difficult at times if they decide their salary makes them superior to "underwater basket weavers" or the like.
I guess that makes you guilty of no 1 in the post
how?
By saying labor aristocracy is still just workers, and implying everyone is on the same boat?
youre being obtuse. the issue is saying "we're all workers" in order to dismiss peoples valid concerns and experiences. Obviously tech workers are still workers. their workers just privileged has hell, and they generally need to learn when to shut up and listen.
Is that the issue? Because when I consider myself in the same boat as poorly paid workers, it’s to support their — and my — rights, benefits and security.
yes
its nice you dont run into these people but they are everywhere.
It's a blurry line and I don't know where to draw it between people paid to do lower level tech tasks for tech corporations on one end and on the other highly paid and connected and privileged "code ninjas" or whatever the techbros call them this week.
Maybe differentiate between poverty and workers rights?
I’m in a good job and have no idea about living in poverty. Without my job and state support I would last some months, maybe a year. Long Covid could take me out easily. I am privileged by having a good job, but when head’s comes to tail I am in the same boat as any other workers.
Honestly I don’t really understand what OP is trying to say.
the main point is that leftists belonging to privileged groups are not immune to chauvinism, bigotry, and unexamined privileged thinking, and when someone criticizes them for it their response should be to shut the fuck up and listen instead of getting defensive or accusing them of dividing the left.
I didn't get the first point cuz labor aristrocracy by definition is not pretending to be on the left, nor talking to the poor proles, and a lot nor even considering themselves "a prole". Plus most have the oppprtunity to become petty burshwá.
No but if you have a boat that keeps you afloat for a year and especially if you know it, you have a lot more room to manouver than someone like me whose boat would instantly sink. It gives you more space even before anything happens to you so the difference is there all the time.
It's like saying falling from a cliff has the same result regardless of how high it is. We are both on a cliff, but it's not the same one.
The thing about poverty is that there are no error margins on anything. It strips you of good choices and ends up forcing you to make expensive and oppressive choices in ways that is impossible to explain to someone who has never been poor, and that is how we are different.
I deny nothing of that.
I don’t know how much to differentiate. Do the working poor need the same help as those who can’t work? Probably not. My guess is they benefit more from adequate wages and job security than state support. Those are things that I want for myself, too, regardless how much I currently need it.
Do you then go around claiming that working poor and those who’re unable to work are not in the same boat?
Well I work with unemployed folks and while the stuggle is similar it is again a very different boat in terms of agency and how well it stays afloat. So yes, it's going to be a different boat even if it is a more similar one.
I suppose my point is that while all of these are workers, their conditions (level of privilege) is different and therefore while they are the same in one way they are different in others. Maybe if we look at it on a macrolevel we can focus on the sameness, but on a microlevel and in everyday power the differences dictate the lives of people in ways that can't be reduced to being in the same boat.
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I don't actually know.
The best I can do is say that some tech workers are still workers, but I'd have to find a line to draw between "just trying to survive" and "actively making the world worse for the sake of nerd rapture."
deleted by creator