Removed by mod
Unpopular opinion about Israel and Palestine
Removed by modI don't understand the support for Hamas among some on the leftist. Of course, I understand that Israel has oppressed the Palestinians for many years and there is no justification for this, but there is no need to justify the actions of religious fanatics who also kill civilians, especially since Israel itself has aggravated the problem with the Islamists
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How is this going to be the only content you’ve posted on the site??????????
The zionoids are committing genocide and apartheid and Hamas is fighting against that. Not supporting Hamas is like not supporting the Taliban during the Afghanistan war.
there is no need to justify the actions of religious fanatics who also kill civilians
There is no such thing as a zionoid civilian. Everything that moves and isn't Palestinian is a valid target.
Shit like this makes me wish @Nameless_Partisan didn't get banned so she could set people straight.
I don't know who on the staff did it, as the modlogs are irritatingly opaque about 'who did what', but someone tried reading her talk about decolonization, especially of Palestine, as 'advocacy for terrorism'. She took offense, and got VERY understandably heated about it. To this day, I feel like she got Vaush'd, hard by someone on the mod-team.
That is not what happened at all. It's what Nameless_Partisan claimed happened.
Partisan had always been heated and quick to ban on the community they created. Early on they showed they were not open to discussion on their opinions. This is fine, we don't police how people carry themselves. But it shows their personality. They were not banned for this behaviour.
Later they went into a diatribe against another user on the Palestine community, completely unprompted, after that person asked for advice. The person in question was an Israeli communist and I know that raises a lot of eyebrows (it did to me too) but there is a lot of depth to Israeli communists, most of them being Palestinians who were naturalized after Nakba, and the communist party of Israel calling for the dissolution of this state. This attack was unprompted and I was the one who banned them for a measly 3 days and only from the Palestine community for a violation of rule 3. Not difficult to find it was me in the modlog as I'm the only mod of the Palestine community and I also told them in the comments, to which they never replied but later brought up in their farewell post, leaving it stirring without wanting to engage with us (the admins) as had always been the case.
They could have taken the time to ask the person in question what it meant to them to be a communist in such a country, etc, but instead decided to start attacking a comrade on Lemmygrad out of nowhere.
We built a community here and while we don't ask users where they come from there is some basic level of comradeship that builds itself with the account vetting system in place and the fact that we're all MLs. If you can't even afford that basic amount of politeness to anyone then yes, that is a breach of rule 3.
But their comment to the user in question was not deleted. Nameless instead deleted their entire comment history later on so I couldn't even tell you what they told that Israeli person.
Their comment that was deleted was essentially saying it was okay to kill Israeli children. An admin decided to remove it as it could bring trouble to Lemmygrad. But we've never deleted comments about targetting settlers or calling for the end of Israel, etc. We make these comments ourselves too.
They were not banned for this comment, it was merely deleted. This is also around the time they changed their bio in their profile to say "Banned for being mean to an israeli colonizer." but again a- they did not know if that person was a colonizer (and if they don't know that there are Arabs with second-class Israeli citizenship then they are not qualified to speak so much about Palestine) and b- they were temp banned from a single community.
They were also not called a terrorist but their comment was deleted for advocating terrorism. This might seem pedantic, but the distinction is important. Calling someone a terrorist is an accusation. Deleting a comment for advocating terrorism is not placing the blame on them, just that the wording of the comment, while accidental, came off this way. This is when they renamed their account as "mean_arab_terrorist".
Later, they made their farewell post where they brought their version of events, but we debunked it there as well, and Partisan never once replied to the comments.
Since their original farewell post was locked, someone made a different post in Comradeship to talk about that farewell post. Edit: found it again: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/617510
When you put all of this together it starts to look like they were more interested in stirring up trouble than actually engaging with the platform, most of the time posting in their own community from which they indiscriminately banned people who disagreed with them. But again, this is not a bannable offense on Lemmygrad as there are plenty of other communities to participate on.
Despite this, Partisan was not banned from the website and the entire admin team was in agreement that they were not easy to manage, so to speak, but that nothing was ban-worthy by itself. What was problematic to us was that at no point did NP try to contact us to explain their issues, instead preferring to indirectly talk at us by changing their display name or profile bio. I don't think they ever once replied to any of my comments either.
They came back 3 months after that farewell post, which they locked right after they made it (but we did not touch in any way), to say in Arabic "May God’s peace, mercy, and blessings be upon you. I am a Shiite. I no longer participate on this site because it is occupied by Satan. May God protect you."
Totally a normal thing to say 3 months after you made your goodbyes and you got the slightest slap on the wrist for not obeying the site rules which are prominently displayed.
Someone reported that comment and that is when Partisan finally got banned from Lemmygrad for inciting trouble on a website that they willingly left.
First of all there are no civilians in Israel, and international law is quite clear on this. In cases of occupation, which the UN recognizes Israel as doing, the occupier is not allowed to bring their population to the occupied country.
In this case the settlers are legitimate targets because they are occupying the country illegally. How are Palestinians supposed to defend its right to live if they can't touch settlers, which are everywhere in Palestine? That's why it's a law that you can't bring your population to an area you occupy.
Secondly pretty much all of them serve in the IDF and are then reservists, making them soldiers.
The only civilians you could make a case for in this scenario are children under 18.
Finally the struggle for national liberation comes before the struggle for socialism. Read Mao.
- Civilians != the state, and killing them is a very internationalist position(no).
- Mao is a revisionist
There are almost no civilians in Israel as I said because they serve in the IDF. The civilians would be kids and tourists.
International law doesn't make the distinction between civilians and their state, they are the occupier's population and as such it is not a war crime on Palestine's part if they get killed during an operation. I'm sure there's more nuance to what you can and can't do to a civilian population but yeah, the responsibility is on Israel as they are considered the occupier in this case.
Oh no! The people fighting against their extermination aren't sufficiently progressive! Guess we have to support the apartheid state because it's legal to be gay there.
There is no need to support any of them, the only way out for the Israelis and the Palestinians is class war and nothing else
Wanting Israel to stop doing apartheid isn't going to make israel stop doing apartheid. If Hamas is trying to stop Israel, then they get support. There are also Marxist brigades fighting alongside Hamas. If Palestinian Marxists see common cause with Hamas, then I support them and I do not presume I understand their conditions better than they themselves do.
It is very strange to go with those who are ready to kill communists, given that the Palestinian left was in conflict with Hamas
The PLFP is a ML liberation group, and they have a relationship with Hamas that has fluctuated throughout the years, but I think you should hear from their leader about why they hold the positions they do
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Does it really seem strange to you to fight alongside other Palestinians against the occupying forces who have been oppressing them since 1947? The Israelis are just as anti-communist as any other western polity.
Remember that to some western 'radicals', the only good revolutionary is an unsuccessful one.
I would never go to war with those who kill civilians and put a spoke in the wheels of their people, whether there is a Palestinian Hamas, an Israeli, a Russian or a Ukrainian state, it doesn’t matter. All we can do is try to agitate people correct ideas
You don't live under the boot of military occupation. You presume moral superiority but for us on the outside this is nothing but mental masturbation. If the marxists fighting and dying for Palestinian liberation are willing to fight side by side with Hamas, I support them. Liberation isn't a TV show.
If the marxists fighting and dying for Palestinian liberation are willing to fight side by side with Hamas, I support them. Liberation isn’t a TV show.
Gospel. It's like what I say about China and the Panthers. If they were good enough for Bobby Seale, they're good enough for me; likewise, if Palestinian comrades are arm-in-arm with Hamas against their oppressor, if Hamas is good enough for the Palestinian comrades, then I've no reason to gainsay it.
So by your logic the Chinese communist forces should never joined forces with the KMT and both should have succumbed to the Japanese imperialist forces? When the enemy is that bad and that dangerous the luxury of picking allies is rarely afforded
Only because Israel has spent a ton of time and resources targeting marxists in particular. This is a huge chance for the PFLP and DFLP to build support
Marxists are almost universally unpopular everywhere except in a handful of countries (which few countries, incidentally, are almost universally hated by a big chunk of all the other countries).
It is a shame that pro-palestine sympathisers in the West paint the Palestinians as the "perfect victims," defanged, innocent, and mute creatures, and preferably westernized.
Hamas is Palestine. They even won the last elections. This may not be “ideal”, but supporting them is critical to the struggle for a free Palestine.
This is the only action left to them. The only card they have left to play. I support them because it's the least I can do.
I don't support Hamas but Hamas != Palestine. The PLO and especially the PFLP are secular, left-wing organizations and the PLO holds about 40% of the seats on the Palestinian Legislative Council. They would hold more if Israel hadn't gone after Fatah so viciously while ignoring Hamas back in the '70s and '80s.
I also dispute the idea that Israeli civilians in the area currently under attack are blameless. Almost all of the attacks are in areas that belong to Palestine according to the 1947 UN partition—Ashdod and Be'er Sheva are Palestinian cities by law and any Israeli there is an illegal occupier.
We can wish we had better tools and more noble actors at hand in a crisis, but you are left evaluating the situation by material conditions, not ideals. If a peaceful secular solution to the problem was currently on the table I would fully support that against a reactionary religious group.
As it stands violence is the only tool available to solve the problem and the only groups prepared to organize a militant resistance are not secular Marxist leftists. When the open air prison is gone and conditions improve it might be easier to convince the starved out populace of the region to pursue other means to achieve change, but at the moment the jailers have been clear about how effective non violent resistance will be.
