Really makes you think about why Hamas is so radicalized, doesn't it? It's not like you can pull a Muslim out of a hat and radicalize them. People in a stable, healthy, and fair socioeconomic position do not see violence as an answer. People who live under constant oppression, inequality, and fear do.
Isreali citizens = also victims, although much less abused and arguably somewhat complicit if they immigrated.
degrees of innocence maybe. An Israeli who has never personally done direct violence to a Palestinian is definitely more innocent than one who has killed a Palestinian
This part always makes me feel ambivalent about the Israelites in the conflict. Israeli citizens are complicit victims, and that's a contradiction but it's also true. Civilians are getting hurt and dying and that's not okay. However those same Israeli citizens are also supporting a basically genocidal government. Thousands of guidanceless rockets were fired at Isreal, are they expected not to respond? Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been victimized for their entire lives, are they expected not to respond?
If you're just born in Tel Aviv or Gaza City, I don't think you should be blamed for these military things. Maybe you support Hamas or Otzma Yehudit, but you're kind of a product of your environment, and if tangential support is all you do you're still a bystander. Maybe not a great example of humanity, but a bystander none the less.
I would have to be pretty truly desperate to consider aliyah myself, even before there was a war. I guess I could do it, and then support forces in Israel for peace, but I'm not sure if I'd make any difference, and they're going to be reluctant to let in my never-practiced ass even without me being openly hostile to the whole project.
One of the downsides of having mandatory military service is that civilians aren’t exactly regular civilians. Even if they’re not serving now, most of the adult population in Israel has served in the army.
I don’t think that excuses sexual violence and executing children, but it definitely makes the context of civilians a lot murkier.
Fortunately, no child executions or rapes have been confirmed.
Thousands of guidanceless rockets were fired at Isreal, are they expected not to respond?
This kind of thinking is what got the troubles as bad as it was
Yeah it did. Unfortunately though once the genie is out of the bottle it's really hard to put it back in. War has it's own momentum and it's that momentum that needs to be resisted or expended before a war will stop. Perhaps I was unclear, I do not support any active combatants to the war and like every other war it's the non-combatants who will suffer the most. As much as I would like to resist the momentum of war, I'm just a dude on the other side of the planet talking about something he barely knows.
It's been 17 years since the last election. Assuming only 18 and up could vote, that means only people current around 34 and up could vote. So the bulk of Palestinians didn't even have a chance to vote in that election. Not to mention that they were given the choice between a corrupt faction (Fatah) and a possible less corrupt faction (Hamas).
I am so afraid this message is getting lost. There has been a deliberate push to paint this latest incident to be the reason that neighborhoods had to be flattened and civilians slaughtered.
"Hamas" has done more for Palestinians than all the "aid" ever given by the EU.
Hamas have done more for Palestine than anything the EU has ever done
Hamas has supporters because they are the only one who fight. If tomorrow, Hamas disappears, there will be another group that Palestinians would support and another and another until there are no reasons for the Palestinians to resist
you don't need to like them or anything (this is not liberalism and freedom of association is not real), our morals or opinions can't stop the mechanism that is taking place in the place
Palestinian politics is also very heavily influenced by which group is getting external support and aid
Haven’t surveys shown that a majority of Palestinians support Hamas?
Hamas is the only group in this world standing up for the Palestinian people, so I would support them too, we're I locked up in that open air prison, my family and friends being constantly murdered for profit.
Yes, we must understand that not only do Gazan Palestinians as a majority support Hamas, but Hamas is a force for good and they are correct for doing so. Sure, after decolonization, start fighting for a better representative, but for now Hamas is the best shot they have at not being genocided.
This same framework is used every time there is a broad movement which chooses, with good reason, for a strong group which can accomplish their goals. "Socialism is fine but Stalin did it bad" but then the purity fetish prevents the original goal from ever being achieved. Don't bother convincing people socialism is good but Stalin bad. No Stalin is good and so I socialism.
To be clear, because reading it again gave me some unclarity, I absolutely defend Stalin because he was good, not just as a rhetorical strategy. Just that even if he could've been better, he was the best possible and denigrating him denigrates socialism every time. Real critique is fine ("75% good of course") but painting him as a problem as a person cannot be removed form socialism. Hamas is doing decolonization, and denigrating them is denigrating decolonization
the best shot they have at not being genocided
Stalin is good
You should go to the olympic games in paris next year, you could probably win a lot of gold medals with these mind gymnastics
You should read a goddamn book about any of these topics or begone ye
Edit: ah shit I'm outside of Hexbear. Ok then let's engage a bit here. What about these things seems contradictory to you? That there is an active genocide for about 100 years in Palestine or that Stalin is good?
How are they not the best chance they have at not being genocided? They're the only ones fighting to make it not happen lol.
I mean if you live in a country controlled by a terrorist group that kills anyone who is not their side, and someone goes to your door and asks if you support them... What would you say?
It's easy to dismiss this issue by thinking they have the same freedom of speech as we do in the west, and they can have political opinions without any repercussion.
Same can be said about north Korea.
I think elections showed Vladimir Putin won with >90% of the vote.
Kim Jong Un also seems to enjoy the support of his people.
Kim Jong-un is popular because he's great. Don't compare him to fuckers like Putin.
