Won't lie. We're almost at BBQ season and I'm going to be smoking up all kinds of goodness on the pit that'll make yo mouth water. I'll post pics but if it's too offensive I'll just keep the food pr0n to myself.

  • LessNephrons1 [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    How can you call yourself a leftist, yet support factory farming, where billions of sentient beings are tortured to death?

    Doesn't that strike you as a contradiction?

    • hagensfohawk [none/use name]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Consuming animal products doesn't mean I support factory farming anymore than buying a phone means supporting rare earth mineral mining practices.

      An individual consumer choice won't even put a dent into the practices of business. There's large capital invested into farms, slaughter houses, etc. Even if the demand for meat products dropped a bit, the price would also drop and demand would pick back up as consumption would be made up by thise who do consume meat consuming even more of it.

      Veganism as an individual consumer choice under an moralist framework is super lib

    • purr [undecided]
      ·
      4 years ago

      many people call themselves leftist but are racist, transphobic, classist, homophobic, sexist, capitalists, assholes etc. nobody seems to really bat an eye then.

      this doesnt diminish being against factory farming but its weird when this moralistic argument gets pulled with such pearl clutching and gasping that its as if other oppression doesnt exist. Or as if we don’t live in a primarily meat eating non vegan context, as if some people have the money or option of choice in their neighborhoods. As if people don’t come from specific POC or regional cultural contexts that prioritizes meat.

      i wish people would stop being racist to me but im not needlessly evangelizing others because its annoying and sanctimonious. trust me, we all have experience caring so much about a super fucked up morally reprehensible issue that it's often on our minds.....the pushy vegan stereotype exists for a reason and it probably has to deal with your accusation of someone supporting factory farming when they simply said "no" in response to being encouraged to go vegan.

      people acting like this is exactly why i dont support the CW for meat; there are other people in the world other than yourself and there are things with equally high stakes, if not more that we comparatively don’t grind people down with in normal conversation. Normal zealots of equal causes don’t act like this and often veganism is talked about with this weird moralistic judge mental rhetoric that makes people not like you. The CW feels like an extension of that.

        • purr [undecided]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I am not talking about how people are leftist but are still bigots on this specific site, i'm, talking about leftists in general often making a practice of calling themselves leftist while being a bigot towards another marginalized group.

          Chapo as a site is way more advanced in terms of leftists being aware of bigotry compared to other internet and real life places.

          But regardless, in the left community (not just chapo.chat) I see problematic faves get hailed for their "broken clock is right a day" takes while still being absolute bigots (theyre mean to everyone because theyre assholes but their main targets seem to be black people and/or trans people) to name a few of the problematic faves who are entertained despite routinely being transphobic/racist : the chapo hosts, particularly amber , glenn greenwald ---who although this sub doesnt like him, is very much still considered a left voice some people weirdly lie down their generally anti bigotry to entertain - shuja haider, lee fang, the nagle woman, etc.

          This isnt a point brought up to play oppression olympics, although I will say that a hierarchy of being directly effected by marginalization and how that informs the way you engage with others is at play here.
          This point is specifically a response to the whole pearl clutching of "HOW COULD YOU CALL YOURSELF A LEFTISTTTTTTTT" when it's like, "I dont know, but everyone since the beginning of time has called themselves progressive while being a bigot to marginalized people and causes so.....why are you acting precious and surprised, as if your new to the idea that your pet cause will be ignored by others. at least it's not your own identity that's being ignored but alas".

          it's up there with the white girl who cries in 2020 over racism being a thing because "I never knew it was THAAAATTT bad". It's day late dollar short behavior where the shock of someone learing about the big bad world gets needlessly carried over into all of their interactions even though theyre usually talking to people who have been known whats going on.

          I understand how most activists are considered trouble makers by those aligned against their interest but also by normies.. I have done tenant organizing work for the last 10 years. I believe that housing is a human right and nobody else (im talking about lay people not leftists) seems to agree. It's very frustrating and per my job i've had to really raise my voice over the years. However as an organizer I also understand how to bring people to my side, how to socialize with people and outside of any political conversation, how to just be a person people want to continue to engage with. Activism is pushy by nature but being a wantonly pushy activist in my line of work is being a bad activist. We dont needlessly pop up behind people when theyre just thinking out loud, plowing them with assumptions and facts that even though are true, dont need to be spouted out every single time. It's an incredibly inauthentic and very very rude way to interact with someone.

          Yesterday I did a know your rights training where some very poor small landlords were in the crowd. That doesnt mean they didnt deserve to know about benefits available to them, because we're all hurting during covid, and who am I --a person with a stable job, the ability to pay rent, someone who can be remote --to outwardly judge them for being landlords? Should I have just withheld the knowledge i wanted to share until they left the zoom call? Should I have used that time to berate them? Even though i've also been a victim of gentrification/horrible landlords/ eviction/ racism when renting? I've seen some white (transplant, gentrifier, college educated, wealthy) organizers do this sometimes to poc and poor small landlords. I saw a girl even quote Mao once when doing it and it was incredibly embarassing and harmful to our work.

          I know vegans arent predomionately white, I know that veganism has been sold as being extra constly, extra privileged and extra white, regardless of whether or not that's true. My boyfriend is vegan! My friends are vegan! I brought sistah vegan to my college to speak! and it was great!

          I brought up potential barriers to people being receptive to being vegan not because there arent solutions to them, but just to hammer the idea that people are in different places because of different reasons when it comes to being vegan/ thinking about consuming meat / factory farming shit etc. And that really sucks but it needs to be approached as something normal, to be expected, and something people will want to actually work with, rather than shouting "you support X worst thing ever"

          What i'm calling out is the weird reactionary way that vegans tend to pop up behind someone spouting facts and even projecting aggressive judgements of people's behavior when theyre just simply thinking out loud.

          Yes we all care about different types of bigotry, oppression, harm etc. but I've notice that this weird ass aggressive behavior only really happens with hyper online vegans and its rude. And It's very glaring because when you consider that activists of other types of oppression (oppression of which also has similarly horrific consequences as consuming animals) usually do no pull those weird ass aggressive tactics in normal conversation.

          And yes, while veganism is very diverse, I will say that i've been a poor black queer woman my entire life. I was born into the oppression I face and have been facing it as long as I remember. Vegans as a whole are not similarly born into their cause, as the cause they are advocating for does not as directly effect their personal safety and well being. And yet, vegans are the ones who constantly do this weird aggro reply shit, using the passion and urgency of the movement as a justification, when there are movements that are just as urgent that don't do this.

          Because of this it's hard to see the CW for meat be anything but an extension of this special snowflake "my cause is the best cause" behavior.

          but yall can do you, just dont ban me if i accidentally forget to tag some food as CW because honestly that would be absolutely crazy for all the reasons i mentioned above ( i will make every effort to tag the CW for meat though because I dont feel the need to lord my specific quirks over others as this CW, which other vegans in the comments dont even want, would do)

      • LessNephrons1 [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        The last thing I would ever want to be is annoying or sanctimonious, thanks for the advice. Better to do nothing that might upset someone.