I think the idea that China is still working towards an actually socialist state is eminently false, or if they are it is beyond foresight, so predicting or hoping for it is a waste; but I think China still presents a strong stance against US hegemony + western imperialism and represents a better version of capitalism than the West offers. This is not a very socialist position. Any thoughts? Thanks
You cannot raise multiple generations of young Chinese people on a steady diet of Marx and Lenin and Mao from elementary school onwards and be a little surprised when you end up with a lot of genuine communists. The new generations will eventually fill those positions in their politburo. Even were that not the case, China has demonstrably done more for poverty alleviation than any capitalist nation can claim.
Even were that not the case, China has demonstrably done more for poverty alleviation than any capitalist nation can claim.
But so far they have achieved this largely because of their own type of capitalism, which I claimed is better than the West's, but is not yet socialism. I could easily see a future where China is always "almost ready to start actual socialism" for decades on, without end
This is going to be an unpopular position here, but the Chinese system is neither a temporary retrenchment to capitalism, nor is it just state capitalism with socialist rhetoric covering it up- China is socialist. Period. Having a market sector in the overall framework of a planned, publicly-owned economy is what Socialism looks like in the 21st century. Venezuela, Nicaragua, Belarus, and Vietnam use this model, and increasingly Cuba and the DPRK are moving in the Chinese direction. There's nothing false or fake about Socialism with Chinese characteristics. Maybe in the future they'll move in the direction of a fully centrally planned economy, and there are factions in the party that want to do just that, but that takes nothing away from the fact that their system right now is an example of real, actual socialism, even with their billionaires. Western communists who are wondering whether China will become their ideal picture of a socialist state or whether it's actually some kind of state capitalist hat trick are missing what's right in front of their faces.
I don't disagree. Equally though, they don't don't interfere with our own ability to build socialism, which is also a lot more than can be said about western imperial nations. So they are in the best case scenario, an imperfect socialist nation inching slowly along to a post scarcity level when they can finally hit the full socialism switch, or an equally imperfect capitalist nation that nevertheless manages to improve their own citizenry's lives while also not interfering with other socialist projects.
Yes, agreed. At worst they are probably the best capitalist superpower in history so far. The least imperialist, the most helpful to their citizens. Not perfect but no one is.
I think the idea that China is still working towards an actually socialist state is eminently false, or if they are it is beyond foresight, so predicting or hoping for it is a waste; but I think China still presents a strong stance against US hegemony + western imperialism and represents a better version of capitalism than the West offers. This is not a very socialist position. Any thoughts? Thanks
You cannot raise multiple generations of young Chinese people on a steady diet of Marx and Lenin and Mao from elementary school onwards and be a little surprised when you end up with a lot of genuine communists. The new generations will eventually fill those positions in their politburo. Even were that not the case, China has demonstrably done more for poverty alleviation than any capitalist nation can claim.
But so far they have achieved this largely because of their own type of capitalism, which I claimed is better than the West's, but is not yet socialism. I could easily see a future where China is always "almost ready to start actual socialism" for decades on, without end
This is going to be an unpopular position here, but the Chinese system is neither a temporary retrenchment to capitalism, nor is it just state capitalism with socialist rhetoric covering it up- China is socialist. Period. Having a market sector in the overall framework of a planned, publicly-owned economy is what Socialism looks like in the 21st century. Venezuela, Nicaragua, Belarus, and Vietnam use this model, and increasingly Cuba and the DPRK are moving in the Chinese direction. There's nothing false or fake about Socialism with Chinese characteristics. Maybe in the future they'll move in the direction of a fully centrally planned economy, and there are factions in the party that want to do just that, but that takes nothing away from the fact that their system right now is an example of real, actual socialism, even with their billionaires. Western communists who are wondering whether China will become their ideal picture of a socialist state or whether it's actually some kind of state capitalist hat trick are missing what's right in front of their faces.
I don't disagree. Equally though, they don't don't interfere with our own ability to build socialism, which is also a lot more than can be said about western imperial nations. So they are in the best case scenario, an imperfect socialist nation inching slowly along to a post scarcity level when they can finally hit the full socialism switch, or an equally imperfect capitalist nation that nevertheless manages to improve their own citizenry's lives while also not interfering with other socialist projects.
Yes, agreed. At worst they are probably the best capitalist superpower in history so far. The least imperialist, the most helpful to their citizens. Not perfect but no one is.