They can start by not exploiting their workers. They can end their misguided state capitalist policies. They can actually give power to the working class instead of repressing them.
NK also engages with capitalists lmfao. Their main trading partner is China, they have SEZs where Chinese and SK firms operate. They have a massive black market, and they tax profits. That's right, they tax profits, not only is all profit not going to the state, they only tax 50% of it. It's not even socialist by the perverse ML standard.
Did I say poverty has stopped existing? I said that wherever poverty has decreased, it is due to capitalism, even in China.
Is my criticism that Cuba is not becoming an autarky? My criticism is that Cuba exploits its workers the same way that any capitalist nation does. According to ML's there is no alternative between standard capitalism and the specific form of state capitalism practices by Cuba and NK. Do you understand how horrible it feels to have no connection between your labor efforts and your wage? This is 1000x worse in ML states where prices are arbitrarily set by the state and have no relation to SNLT.
The fact that these states were attacked is due to competition between the state that owns all capital vs private capitalists who want to own capital. The workers have little to say in this matter.
It's not a bit. Im here to stay, out of the 10000 libs on this site, even if 10 become actual Marxist socialists instead of socdems and red capitalists, it's worth it.
The only alternative to communism is the kind of exploitation and repression seen in ML states.
"Producing commodities for sale is not capitalism. Capitalism is only when bad rich man doesnt pay you." - Karl Marx.
Do you live on the same planet as I do? What are the wealthiest countries on the planet. Which economic system do they use? Which economic system do "emerging" economies use?
Liberalism is when you defend capitalist states because they have red flags. Not when you criticize them.
Imagine naming yourself after Marx and having these kinds of takes.
When did you figure out how much of “first world” nations’ development can be attributed to capitalism being a more effective mode of production from important things like industrialization, colonialism, and literal genocide to seize resources? The extent to which you can quickly attribute that material development to capitalism would combine all of those things into one: “first world” capitalism as practiced through international extraction and violence.
Industrialization is capital accumulation. Colonialism is expanding markets and exporting capital. It's all capitalism. Capitalism is the mode of production that encompasses all these things. Are you having some kind of petty-bourgeois delusion of "pure capitalism"?
Heavily subsidized by the United States for decades and decades because they were developing more poorly than NK. Even that wasn’t really working to achieve the desired effect until the embargo on NK and the fall of the USSR.
So subsidizing makes it not capitalism? The total aid to SK was $35 billion over decades. USA exports more than that to SK every year. Subsidizing helped, but the real reason for SK's development was their initial protectionism, strong state support and intelligent industrial policy. Taiwan followed similar developmental policies. Ignoring all that and handwaving their economic success to US subsidies is like ignoring the real efforts of the SK and Taiwanese people in their economic success.
And what do you mean "c'mon" for Japan? Japan was a capitalist country through and through. Being a socialist doesnt mean you stick your head in the sand about capitalists track record of economic growth.
These countries are only those that managed to get to first world status. There are others which didnt develop too much, but still made massive successes in economic growth and poverty reduction, like India, Mexico, Botswana, Mauritius, many EE-EU countries, Thailand, Vietnam etc.
China was already developing pre-Deng, with life expectancy way up. Dengism is not “development due to capitalism” in the sense that I’m sure you mean to talk about, which is “capitalism being a more effective mode of production” historically. It’s based on a very specific strategy of doing capitalist things to gain entry to international markets, essentially allowing large sections of the economy to be subservient to capital in order to avoid the worst of those external forces I mentioned. It’s not hard to see that this is more capitalist than most socialist countries’ compromises, but it’s also incredibly simplistic (and wrong) to say “China developed because capitalism effective”.
Chinese economy was capitalist pre-Deng and capitalist post-Deng, the major difference being state-ownership and mixed-ownership. You havent actually explained why Dengism isnt just capitalism, you're just saying its simplistic to say so without any explanation. Instead of throwing words at me and hoping I'll buy your bullshit, try to form logical and consistent arguments.
Socialism is the inversion of the class dynamic from being capitalist-dominated to being worker-dominated.
Therefore China is capitalist.
There’s plenty of arguments to be had regarding the status of China as a project that is achieving or on a trajectory to achieve that inversion, but dismissing it as merely capitalist because private ownership exists is to misunderstand the basics of socialism. And there’s no need to try and head me off about social democracy.
Lol China literally is a social democracy. You're right, we can have plently of arguments about the future trajectory of any nation, and that is mostly fruitless because we cannot predict the future. We can talk about the present, which is that China is a capitalist country, its economic success is due to capitalism, they openly talk about furthering "reform and opening up", they are committed to a free and open world market even more than the USA, and that they engage in worker repression and prevent formation of independent trade unions.
Literally not what capitalism means.
Right, commodity production and money has nothing to do with capitalism, Marx never identiified them as the fundamental aspect of capitalism.
Incorrect.
Great argument.
Any post about the Cuban economy that doesnt mention that it is capitalist should be laughed out of the room.
Material conditions made it necessary to have arbitrary prices, extreme exploitation, political repression of unions and lack of investment in economic growth.
It's almost like all "AESC" were always capitalist, and that state capitalism became conflated with socialism.
His main criticism is that they are not socialist at all. They are capitalist states, which is correct. They are more specifically social democracies, like Norway or China, except with even more state ownership. The same basic capitalist process that Marx describes is present in Cuba, the only notable differences are lack of competition between capitals and price-setting by the state, both of which has resulted in economic inefficiency.
The main argument from MLs is that these states have made improvements in the standard of living of people. But not only has private capitalism brought more people out of poverty faster, MLs are only praising state capitalism rather than socialism.
The second argument from MLs are that these states represent a transitional period to socialism, and this somehow makes it necessary to have exploitation, repression and all other things that these states do. This is opportunism of the highest order, it brings an easy excuse to justify any amount of exploitation because "productive forces bro".
"I'm gonna pretend this guy didn't plant any doubts in me by spamming this emote"
Ok explain to me what is Industrialization according to your own interpretation of Marx. I'll try not to laugh.
Ah the famous "socialist commodities" of Stalin.
Cuba has laborers working for a wage with which they buy goods on the market. According to this definition by Marx, Cuba is capitalist. Do you read your own quote spam?
Cuba famously does not produce commodities, what is sells on the world market and in its own markets are simply socialist commodities. This proves that Cuba is not capitalist. Money is not money when you cant buy capital with it because the state already owns all capital. Money stops being money when Amazon and Walmart merge and start owning the entire country.
There is no cure to Stalinist revisionism. Luckily, the Dengization of "socialist" states is helping to improve the standard of living in those countries.