Right, commodity production and money has nothing to do with capitalism, Marx never identiified them as the fundamental aspect of capitalism.
Actually try reading Marx. The existence of commodities and money does not mean capitalism exists. Capital is created in very specific circumstances
"The historic conditions of its existence are by no means given with the mere circulation of money and commodities. It [capitalism] can spring into life only when the owner of the means of production and subsistence meets in the market with the free laborer selling his labor power." (Capital, Vol. I, International ed., p. 170.)
"In themselves money and commodities are no more capital than are the means of production and of subsistence. They want transforming into capital. But this transformation can only take place under certain circumstances that center in this, viz., that two very different kinds of commodity-possessors must come face to face and into contact; on the one hand, the owners of money, means of production, means of subsistence, who are eager to increase the sums of values they possess, by buying other people's labor power; on the other hand, free laborers, the sellers of their own labor power and therefore the sellers of labor.... With this polarization of the market for commodities, the fundamental conditions of capitalist production are given. The capitalist system presupposes the complete separation of the laborers from all property in the means by which they can realize their labor. As soon as capitalist production is once on its own legs, it not only maintains this separation, but reproduces it on a continually extending scale." (Capital, p. 714.)
If workers do not meet owners of production in a free market to sell their labour power as a commodity and instead are allocated work via a central planning directive to workplace that is state owned and nationalised that's not capitalism and capital has not been created as much you'd like it to be. If the direct producers, the workers, are not divorced from the means of production, and if consequently neither these means nor labor power function as commodities, then no survivals of "bourgeois right," nor any amount of other inequities and injustices, can allow of such a society being properly termed capitalist.
Inversely, if the direct producers have been separated from the means of production, and consequently both labor power and means of production are exchanged as commodities, then no amount of social welfare benefits, no nationalizations, no statutory curbs on excess profiteering, no ameliorative measures whatever can conceal or modify the capitalist character of such a society.
You can call it camels, heavy petting or circus clowns but you can't call Socialist societies that existed that organised under those principles capitalist
Also money had a very different function under Socialist countries. You couldn't buy the means of production for one no matter how much you saved up
Ok explain to me what is Industrialization according to your own interpretation of Marx. I'll try not to laugh.
Actually try reading Marx. The existence of commodities and money does not mean capitalism exists. Capital is created in very specific circumstances
Ah the famous "socialist commodities" of Stalin.
“The historic conditions of its existence are by no means given with the mere circulation of money and commodities. It [capitalism] can spring into life only when the owner of the means of production and subsistence meets in the market with the free laborer selling his labor power.” (Capital, Vol. I, International ed., p. 170.)
Cuba has laborers working for a wage with which they buy goods on the market. According to this definition by Marx, Cuba is capitalist. Do you read your own quote spam?
If workers do not meet owners of production in a free market to sell their labour power as a commodity and instead are allocated work via a central planning directive to workplace that is state owned and nationalised that’s not capitalism and capital has not been created as much you’d like it to be. If the direct producers, the workers, are not divorced from the means of production, and if consequently neither these means nor labor power function as commodities, then no survivals of “bourgeois right,” nor any amount of other inequities and injustices, can allow of such a society being properly termed capitalist.
Cuba famously does not produce commodities, what is sells on the world market and in its own markets are simply socialist commodities. This proves that Cuba is not capitalist. Money is not money when you cant buy capital with it because the state already owns all capital. Money stops being money when Amazon and Walmart merge and start owning the entire country.
There is no cure to Stalinist revisionism. Luckily, the Dengization of "socialist" states is helping to improve the standard of living in those countries.
Of course they produce commodities in order to be sold on the world market, how the hell else would they survive? What pie in the sky ultraleft anprim bullcrap is this?
If youre not a fan of extensive foreign trade, then prehaps you would like Juche? Or is nothing that currently exists or has any chance to exist soon good enough for you?
I know youre banned now and wont see this, but i need to say it: leftcompride, get out of the armchair for bit and recconect with reality for a few, i think it will do you some good.
The Marx understander as logged on
Actually try reading Marx. The existence of commodities and money does not mean capitalism exists. Capital is created in very specific circumstances
If workers do not meet owners of production in a free market to sell their labour power as a commodity and instead are allocated work via a central planning directive to workplace that is state owned and nationalised that's not capitalism and capital has not been created as much you'd like it to be. If the direct producers, the workers, are not divorced from the means of production, and if consequently neither these means nor labor power function as commodities, then no survivals of "bourgeois right," nor any amount of other inequities and injustices, can allow of such a society being properly termed capitalist.
Inversely, if the direct producers have been separated from the means of production, and consequently both labor power and means of production are exchanged as commodities, then no amount of social welfare benefits, no nationalizations, no statutory curbs on excess profiteering, no ameliorative measures whatever can conceal or modify the capitalist character of such a society.
You can call it camels, heavy petting or circus clowns but you can't call Socialist societies that existed that organised under those principles capitalist
Also money had a very different function under Socialist countries. You couldn't buy the means of production for one no matter how much you saved up
Ok explain to me what is Industrialization according to your own interpretation of Marx. I'll try not to laugh.
Ah the famous "socialist commodities" of Stalin.
Cuba has laborers working for a wage with which they buy goods on the market. According to this definition by Marx, Cuba is capitalist. Do you read your own quote spam?
Cuba famously does not produce commodities, what is sells on the world market and in its own markets are simply socialist commodities. This proves that Cuba is not capitalist. Money is not money when you cant buy capital with it because the state already owns all capital. Money stops being money when Amazon and Walmart merge and start owning the entire country.
There is no cure to Stalinist revisionism. Luckily, the Dengization of "socialist" states is helping to improve the standard of living in those countries.
Of course they produce commodities in order to be sold on the world market, how the hell else would they survive? What pie in the sky ultraleft anprim bullcrap is this?
If youre not a fan of extensive foreign trade, then prehaps you would like Juche? Or is nothing that currently exists or has any chance to exist soon good enough for you?
I know youre banned now and wont see this, but i need to say it: leftcompride, get out of the armchair for bit and recconect with reality for a few, i think it will do you some good.