In retrospect the line "conservatism is the new punk rock" was incredibly funny coming from the guys who got into conservative politics through children's toys.
It's a depiction of reverse-patriarchy as critique of patriarchy in our existing society. The Barbies hold the social status of men in our existing society, while the Kens occupy the social status of women.
I mean yes, Ken has always been an accessory to Barbie. But failing to understand how this was platformed in the movie as a centrepoint of the feminist critique it makes is just willful stupidity on your or anyone else's part. It's a dumbass "the curtains are blue" kind of take intended to terminate all deeper thought that might result in anybody learning anything or demonstrating growth as a person.
Charitably to our new fediverse friends, I'd be willing to believe that it's not willful, just that liberal ideology makes the characteristics of a product seem more center stage than feminist politics
After reading it over and over, I really should have worded it differently. I just wanted to address the idea of equating leaning right and some extreme moron on the right. Just for that person I was replying to though.
What do we on the furthest left want? We want a different economic system, bringing true equity to all people. We believe that no matter what happens we will be forced into violence to achieve this because under absolutely no circumstances will the ruling class give up their power willingly, they will kill us all to stop it, forcing the inevitable violent clash to occur as we've seen several times now.
What do those on the furthest right want? The 14 words and a hierarchical patriarchal hell that enslaves everyone outside of straight white males to the benefit of them, and even among them it will be the ruling group only rather than all.
Liberals on the other hand want to maintain the status quo, despite knowing that it is going to destroy the entire planet, and despite knowing that outside of the imperial core life is a living hell under capitalism, where 70% of the world's population is exploited for the benefit of the cluster of privileged predominantly white global-north countries, typically euphemised in the media as the "international community".
What do you think of fact that the political center is different at different times and places? Are all of those respective centers correct, is it merely a matter of coincidence that our current center is the Truth, or is this golden mean thinking a load of horseshit?
I did attempt to explain in another post, but I'll also reply here.
I'm not saying the center is the ideal. I'm not saying people at the edges of the political compass are "extreme". Being in the center would be like trying to serve the same plate to two different patrons at a restaurant. I personally think you should pick a side and stand up for your ideals.
However, issues that arise should be resolved with critical thinking in mind. Bad faith arguments in an attempt to hold your position is extreme. Ignoring evidence supporting other conclusions is extreme.
I view extremes, in the context of political leanings, as being positions that do not allow for new or competing information. Holding on to a position at any cost, despite evidence of the contrary.
I can "define my terms" for you, but would that really change anything?
I just thought it was a bit funny to see so many replies to such a one-off and throwaway comment.
I do want to know though... is it that everyone thinks I'm a troll? I'm not familiar with this particular instance overall, but I'm not a stranger to general socialist content. I figured it would be understood that "extremes" would refer to political ideology that involves sticking with a party at any cost, without ever thinking critically about the ideology and their positions.
I can "define my terms" for you, but would that really change anything?
why are fascists so unwilling to just define their terms? do you know your terms are explicitly fascist, or have you just never examined the terms some youtubers or whatever handed to you?
"positions that do not allow for competing information" is just hand-waving, you didn't define shit and you know it
I won't answer any questions until you answer my simple one. I'm a communist, I'm not afraid to define what I believe in because it's not horrible, disgusting shit. Fascists have trouble with this because they know their beliefs are repugnant, irrational trash.
My point was just that someone who has a more right leaning opinion is not the same as the cretin in the OP.
So what? A conservative is not the same as a fascist? What real fucking difference does that separation make? Both are cretins with abhorrent views at the end of the day. Are you a conservative?
Having a lean on a particular opinion at an individual level doesn't mean shit. That's nuance for you.
The comment I replied to implied they felt bad for having any right leaning opinion at all simply because of other people with right leaning opinions being more extreme. I merely said it didn't make them the same. Maybe the person will reconsider their positions after seeing the true nature of the conservative party. Maybe they have been blind to it.
I don't really know. It was just a one-off comment.
Saying that someone with "right leaning opinions" and an outright ideologically committed fascist are "not the same" is a redundant comment due to both categorically being different positions in the sphere of right wing thought. Both positions are delusional, and the former should be at least slightly embarrassed for choosing to occupy the same ignorant, anti-human ideological tendency as the latter in any capacity, especially in the context of this post. There is absolutely no nuance, when a person actively recognizes that they "lean" rightwards ideologically on any issue, other than the nuance of their individual opinions inevitably changing as time progresses.
You aren't on anymore, and running any form of asinine one-off apologetics for right wing positions will rightfully get you flamed. Your kind isn't welcome here.
For the record, I was scrolling my Lemmy feed and saw the OP. Was reading the comments and simply replied to it. I'm not here to run apologetics for right wing positions.
As I said in other comments, doing everything possible to stifle progress and maintain the status quo is the extreme position I'm referring to in my original reply. That has nothing to do with left/right. There are plenty of people all over the spectrum that refuse to allow humanity to move forward (or push to reverse progress). Anyone that is against moving us forward is fucking wrong.
If even after I clarify this you still think I'm some fucking piece of shit stormfront facist, then I'm sorry. Either you have dealt with so many trolls it's now expected from every new person, or you've made up your mind and it doesn't matter what I say anymore.
I don't think you are a fascist. All I know from the information provided so far is that you are a very lost redditor (look at the logo closely) who speaks with authority on subject matter he understands little about due to a lack of political education. That is always something quite annoying.
Like the implication that there is a (mythical) reasonable right wing ideological position in a thread where we're mocking some internet fascist for being an anti-human scumbag, is a wrong statement, unwelcome on this site, and functionally apologetics for the tendency at large. However, I believe that it was not your personal intention to do so.
That was also some interesting stuff about the fervent defense of the status quo being separate from ideology but idk man at the end of the day your heart seems to be in the right place, I admire your open mindedness and genuine acknowledgement of a bigger picture for humanity, thats what matters. If you have the time, I would implore you to check out the works of modern alternative thinkers like Noam Chomsky, Mark Fisher, Micheal Parenti, and David Graeber, as reading their works is an exploration of novel perspectives about the current situation and the ways in which our progress as a species is stifled by bad actors.
But be careful about what people tell you online though, you should never go to gen.lib.rus.ec and search for books to download using their extensive database because its illegal to violate intellectual property rights. People even use that site to circumvent paying for outrageously expensive college textbooks, very bad.
I appreciate the response. However, I never intended for my comment to come off with any authority. I'm just a random fucking netizen. I thought it might be a good opportunity to show someone that is experiencing that break in delusion that there is light on the other side. Not that their right leaning opinion was reasonable (it's not). Of course, it's possible I misread the situation and context. I really didn't notice where I was in terms of community. I'm happy I fell into this though, I immediately subscribed when I explored a little more.
Addressing the status quo thing, I don't mean to say the status quo is separate from ideology. Only that progress as a whole cannot happen when people want to maintain the status quo so badly that they are willing to throw away any and all morality. This is something that both sides of the political spectrum do (in terms of the US political left/right) as evidenced by democrat and republican voting records. Missed opportunities to move forward alongside bills straight up intended to be cruel to marginalized communities.
Anyway, thank you for continuing to reply. I for sure will steer clear of the linked resource, as the thought of breaking copyright laws makes me shake in my boots. I would never download or access copies of obscenely overpriced reading materials.
By your deffinition of not allowing new competing information, libs fit that definition even more eo than the cretin in the op. And you know? I agree thats the escence of being a reactionary someone who oposes progress.
And by that logic any backward class that oposes progres are extremists and should be removed by force if necesary.
Yes. Regardless of political leaning, disregarding new or competing information on its face is bad. People should be more willing to accept that they can be wrong, or misinformed.
Progress is the goal, and we can't get there if we aren't willing to accept the errors we make and correct them.
Even the wealthiest countries in the world have human beings sleeping in the streets, despite also having more than enough resources to guarantee housing for every single person. As far as the law is concerned, the only thing that matters is that these desperate people must not be allowed to break into empty abandoned houses for shelter, as this violates the infinitely more important private property rights of the homeowner to own an empty abandoned house.
"Centrism" is pretty extreme, it just doesn't feel that way because the horrors are so normalized
This is an excellent way to put it, and another great example of an extreme.
There are people, like in the OP, that hold delusional views on the right. That doesn't mean everyone is, which was my way of addressing the comment I was replying to.
Refusing to pick a side when there are clear reasons to not be on the right is fucking extreme. I should have included it in my reply, but it was meant to be a quick little one-off and not a deep discussion on extreme politics.
okay but why equivocate between the left and right? you're painting an equality between people who want to make the world a better place and people who want to be the boot stomping down on faces forever.
in my experience, speaking as a trans person, someone with slightly right leaning opinions wants me and mine to not exist in public and deny that we even exist. that's a "centrist" position these days. so sorry for being touchy but I think salvaging people like that can only happen by the people close to them pushing them to be a better person. see my comment on civility, point 4, here.
Even his "conservative friends" are clearly put off by his culture war bullshit lol. They just want to be normal and watch normal movies.
In retrospect the line "conservatism is the new punk rock" was incredibly funny coming from the guys who got into conservative politics through children's toys.
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It's a depiction of reverse-patriarchy as critique of patriarchy in our existing society. The Barbies hold the social status of men in our existing society, while the Kens occupy the social status of women.
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I mean yes, Ken has always been an accessory to Barbie. But failing to understand how this was platformed in the movie as a centrepoint of the feminist critique it makes is just willful stupidity on your or anyone else's part. It's a dumbass "the curtains are blue" kind of take intended to terminate all deeper thought that might result in anybody learning anything or demonstrating growth as a person.
Charitably to our new fediverse friends, I'd be willing to believe that it's not willful, just that liberal ideology makes the characteristics of a product seem more center stage than feminist politics
mods you can't remove every random rightoid that wanders in here - where are we going to get food to play with
We're defederating from lemm.ee one user at a time.
hey there have been like 3 of em that seemed cool.
I've seen maybe one
Lean into a pit, binch.
(posted through a veil of tears).
😠
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You say on the socialist instance like a dumbass lmao.
I'll give you that.
After reading it over and over, I really should have worded it differently. I just wanted to address the idea of equating leaning right and some extreme moron on the right. Just for that person I was replying to though.
The issue is "extremes" (plural).
What do we on the furthest left want? We want a different economic system, bringing true equity to all people. We believe that no matter what happens we will be forced into violence to achieve this because under absolutely no circumstances will the ruling class give up their power willingly, they will kill us all to stop it, forcing the inevitable violent clash to occur as we've seen several times now.
What do those on the furthest right want? The 14 words and a hierarchical patriarchal hell that enslaves everyone outside of straight white males to the benefit of them, and even among them it will be the ruling group only rather than all.
Liberals on the other hand want to maintain the status quo, despite knowing that it is going to destroy the entire planet, and despite knowing that outside of the imperial core life is a living hell under capitalism, where 70% of the world's population is exploited for the benefit of the cluster of privileged predominantly white global-north countries, typically euphemised in the media as the "international community".
Socialists are the least extreme of these 3.
Leaning right in 2023 is, in fact, an extremely moronic position.
ur on a comm in a revolutionary socialist instance hahaha
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I’m a lemmygrad user it’s a pain to have to go to hexbear, type up point to look through them all, then copy paste back to the other tab
simply copy our emotes to lemmygrad
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Unless thats something hexbear devs are working on, I think it’s pretty much done, I don’t think it’s on the list for dess or nutomic
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Absolutely crying that i am exposed to this kind of posting on hexbear
Tbf this is dunk tank so all the posts here are just like it
Maybe its better viewed as an opportunity
define "extremes"
edit: awwww this one too I wanted to bat them around for a while
They aint banned yet
maybe they'll be back
Lol
What do you think of fact that the political center is different at different times and places? Are all of those respective centers correct, is it merely a matter of coincidence that our current center is the Truth, or is this golden mean thinking a load of horseshit?
I did attempt to explain in another post, but I'll also reply here.
I'm not saying the center is the ideal. I'm not saying people at the edges of the political compass are "extreme". Being in the center would be like trying to serve the same plate to two different patrons at a restaurant. I personally think you should pick a side and stand up for your ideals.
However, issues that arise should be resolved with critical thinking in mind. Bad faith arguments in an attempt to hold your position is extreme. Ignoring evidence supporting other conclusions is extreme.
That kinda shit, you know?
I think the words that more accurately make your point are "dishonest" or "cynical "
That's much better than the way I put it. Kinda feel like a fucking dumbass
good self crit, stick around and dunk on the libs that come after you
Can't do the grade school level difficulty job of defining your terms huh
I view extremes, in the context of political leanings, as being positions that do not allow for new or competing information. Holding on to a position at any cost, despite evidence of the contrary.
I can "define my terms" for you, but would that really change anything?
I just thought it was a bit funny to see so many replies to such a one-off and throwaway comment.
I do want to know though... is it that everyone thinks I'm a troll? I'm not familiar with this particular instance overall, but I'm not a stranger to general socialist content. I figured it would be understood that "extremes" would refer to political ideology that involves sticking with a party at any cost, without ever thinking critically about the ideology and their positions.
I hope this clears it up for you.
why are fascists so unwilling to just define their terms? do you know your terms are explicitly fascist, or have you just never examined the terms some youtubers or whatever handed to you?
What in the fuck are you on about lol
I defined the term, and asked if it mattered to you.
You never answered that question either.
"positions that do not allow for competing information" is just hand-waving, you didn't define shit and you know it
I won't answer any questions until you answer my simple one. I'm a communist, I'm not afraid to define what I believe in because it's not horrible, disgusting shit. Fascists have trouble with this because they know their beliefs are repugnant, irrational trash.
I totally understand what you're saying, and why you want me to define the terms. I really should have worded it differently.
My point was just that someone who has a more right leaning opinion is not the same as the cretin in the OP.
Again, after spending a lot of time re-reading my comment, I just feel like an idiot for not being specific.
So what? A conservative is not the same as a fascist? What real fucking difference does that separation make? Both are cretins with abhorrent views at the end of the day. Are you a conservative?
No, I'm not.
Having a lean on a particular opinion at an individual level doesn't mean shit. That's nuance for you.
The comment I replied to implied they felt bad for having any right leaning opinion at all simply because of other people with right leaning opinions being more extreme. I merely said it didn't make them the same. Maybe the person will reconsider their positions after seeing the true nature of the conservative party. Maybe they have been blind to it.
I don't really know. It was just a one-off comment.
Saying that someone with "right leaning opinions" and an outright ideologically committed fascist are "not the same" is a redundant comment due to both categorically being different positions in the sphere of right wing thought. Both positions are delusional, and the former should be at least slightly embarrassed for choosing to occupy the same ignorant, anti-human ideological tendency as the latter in any capacity, especially in the context of this post. There is absolutely no nuance, when a person actively recognizes that they "lean" rightwards ideologically on any issue, other than the nuance of their individual opinions inevitably changing as time progresses.
You aren't on
anymore, and running any form of asinine one-off apologetics for right wing positions will rightfully get you flamed. Your kind isn't welcome here.
Fair enough.
For the record, I was scrolling my Lemmy feed and saw the OP. Was reading the comments and simply replied to it. I'm not here to run apologetics for right wing positions.
As I said in other comments, doing everything possible to stifle progress and maintain the status quo is the extreme position I'm referring to in my original reply. That has nothing to do with left/right. There are plenty of people all over the spectrum that refuse to allow humanity to move forward (or push to reverse progress). Anyone that is against moving us forward is fucking wrong.
If even after I clarify this you still think I'm some fucking piece of shit stormfront facist, then I'm sorry. Either you have dealt with so many trolls it's now expected from every new person, or you've made up your mind and it doesn't matter what I say anymore.
I don't think you are a fascist. All I know from the information provided so far is that you are a very lost redditor (look at the logo closely) who speaks with authority on subject matter he understands little about due to a lack of political education. That is always something quite annoying.
Like the implication that there is a (mythical) reasonable right wing ideological position in a thread where we're mocking some internet fascist for being an anti-human scumbag, is a wrong statement, unwelcome on this site, and functionally apologetics for the tendency at large. However, I believe that it was not your personal intention to do so.
That was also some interesting stuff about the fervent defense of the status quo being separate from ideology but idk man at the end of the day your heart seems to be in the right place, I admire your open mindedness and genuine acknowledgement of a bigger picture for humanity, thats what matters. If you have the time, I would implore you to check out the works of modern alternative thinkers like Noam Chomsky, Mark Fisher, Micheal Parenti, and David Graeber, as reading their works is an exploration of novel perspectives about the current situation and the ways in which our progress as a species is stifled by bad actors.
But be careful about what people tell you online though, you should never go to gen.lib.rus.ec and search for books to download using their extensive database because its illegal to violate intellectual property rights. People even use that site to circumvent paying for outrageously expensive college textbooks, very bad.
I appreciate the response. However, I never intended for my comment to come off with any authority. I'm just a random fucking netizen. I thought it might be a good opportunity to show someone that is experiencing that break in delusion that there is light on the other side. Not that their right leaning opinion was reasonable (it's not). Of course, it's possible I misread the situation and context. I really didn't notice where I was in terms of community. I'm happy I fell into this though, I immediately subscribed when I explored a little more.
Addressing the status quo thing, I don't mean to say the status quo is separate from ideology. Only that progress as a whole cannot happen when people want to maintain the status quo so badly that they are willing to throw away any and all morality. This is something that both sides of the political spectrum do (in terms of the US political left/right) as evidenced by democrat and republican voting records. Missed opportunities to move forward alongside bills straight up intended to be cruel to marginalized communities.
Anyway, thank you for continuing to reply. I for sure will steer clear of the linked resource, as the thought of breaking copyright laws makes me shake in my boots. I would never download or access copies of obscenely overpriced reading materials.
By your deffinition of not allowing new competing information, libs fit that definition even more eo than the cretin in the op. And you know? I agree thats the escence of being a reactionary someone who oposes progress.
And by that logic any backward class that oposes progres are extremists and should be removed by force if necesary.
I agree.
Yes. Regardless of political leaning, disregarding new or competing information on its face is bad. People should be more willing to accept that they can be wrong, or misinformed.
Progress is the goal, and we can't get there if we aren't willing to accept the errors we make and correct them.
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thank you for coming to the dunk tank for us. it saves us the effort
You saying "say it louder for the people in the back" gives me everything i need to generalize you thanks
define "extremes"
edit: awwwww i wanted to play with this one
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I want to know what issues they lean to the right on. Like, if it's guns, then they might just be ignorant, maybe.
I just wanted to surprise them with an extreme given the lack of awareness of where they are.
Even the wealthiest countries in the world have human beings sleeping in the streets, despite also having more than enough resources to guarantee housing for every single person. As far as the law is concerned, the only thing that matters is that these desperate people must not be allowed to break into empty abandoned houses for shelter, as this violates the infinitely more important private property rights of the homeowner to own an empty abandoned house.
"Centrism" is pretty extreme, it just doesn't feel that way because the horrors are so normalized
This is an excellent way to put it, and another great example of an extreme.
There are people, like in the OP, that hold delusional views on the right. That doesn't mean everyone is, which was my way of addressing the comment I was replying to.
Refusing to pick a side when there are clear reasons to not be on the right is fucking extreme. I should have included it in my reply, but it was meant to be a quick little one-off and not a deep discussion on extreme politics.
okay but why equivocate between the left and right? you're painting an equality between people who want to make the world a better place and people who want to be the boot stomping down on faces forever.
I should have been more clear on what I meant. Just that having slightly right leaning opinions is not the same as the OP's insanity.
I really didn't mean for it to come off that way, so I apologize.
in my experience, speaking as a trans person, someone with slightly right leaning opinions wants me and mine to not exist in public and deny that we even exist. that's a "centrist" position these days. so sorry for being touchy but I think salvaging people like that can only happen by the people close to them pushing them to be a better person. see my comment on civility, point 4, here.
That's absolutely a fair point
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<3