also depicting Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh isn't banned in China because it personally offended him and he's like a petty tyrant king. It's because misrepresenting the government is illegal and they take that seriously. Maybe from my stupid western perspective it's going a little too far, but also China wouldn't tolerate something like a Qanon movement, or orther wild ass conspiracy theories, so at least they have that going on.
How is a meme "misrepresenting the government" is someone going to look at the picture and think "yes, that's clearly literal, China is run by a anthropomorphic teddy bear from literature".
it's a blanket ban on anything that could be considered defamation or caricature of government officials. Like I said I actually think it's going too far, but I get the idea. It's to stop conspiracy theories and wild rumors before they start. Like I don't know, a person doesn't have to believe it's literal. A confused person could come to any weird conclusions like that Xi Jinping works for Disney or that he played Winnie the Pooh in a movie. I don't know the exact argument but it otherwise tracks with the ban on misrepresentation. Take it up with the Chinese state, not me, but it seems like something very minor to even care about. "I can't call the president a cartoon bear" yeah ok do something else with your time then, who gives a shit
Why does it have to be a binary? It's possible to have freedom of speech and a well run nation. In fact, of China are doing as well as you all seem to think, they have nothing to worry about with criticism or mockery since they can point at their record to disprove it.
Do you think China proving its accomplishments will make the CIA leave? Will building another hospital make the Falun Gong stop accepting money from foreign intelligence? Is this simply a question of winning hearts or is this a country trying to defend itself?
Does a country benefit from having a free press that makes shit up and acts as a vector for hostile foreign governments?
Because you just now framed it as me framing it as one? I'm just pointing out that the right to criticize is A) sometying they have in China and B) Not actually a useful tool for making change on it's own. We can complain all we want here about how our kids are hungry, but start actually feeding them, start taking real action and improving the lives of the impoverished, and the feds will straight up kill you like they did Hampton. In America, our "right to free speech" is a consolation prize for living in a giant human blender, and we are raised to think that the right to complain ineffectually about the blender is just as good as not living in one.
Well, that shit is allowed in the West and the West is garbage. Maybe living in an actual decentralized democratic country where you have actual influence is more important than being allowed to make memes?
There is a reason that Western leaders don't give a shit, and it's that they know any criticism or parody of them has no influence whatsoever.
Literally only a year since public outcry over Boris Johnsons behaviour saw him ousted as PM, then Liz Truss after him.
Leaders doing a good job don't feat parody as they can point at their record to disprove it, if China is a brilliant as you say, why can't they do similar?
Liz Truss replacing Boris Johnson is like replacing cyanide with arsenic. It's hardly anything to point to as an accomplishment.
And no matter how many accomplishments the CPC and Xi Jingping have, it seems like they're still under threat of external aggression and foreign misinformation campaigns. The ban on misinformation is a tactic to fight internal sabotage as much as it is a fight against the USA and Europe. Imperialist countries have been drooling for a way to instigate revolt in China for decades now and I'm gonna try to understand why they take such tactics.
Well I'm not Chinese, so I'm not gonna tell them how to run their country, but I can understand how widespread of a problem misinformation can be.
Personally as a desperate American if I had even a sliver of what people in China have, the better urban planning, the robust train system, the widespread home ownership, 40 years of rising wages, better healthcare system, etc. If I had all of that I'd agree to never speak again.
So you're asking the wrong person, I've got deeper priorities than what kind of jokes I'm allowed to make. A dozen members of my family died of covid, and in China they arrested people for nonsense conspiracy theories about covid, the same kind of misinformation that killed my family. That's where I'm coming from here..
I don't think freedom of speech and good public services need to be a binary. Many Scandinavian countries manage to have both.
In terms of misinformation, the answer isn't to ban speech, it's to have a better educated population who can recognise and not get fooled so easily. For what it's worth, we had people spreading Covid misinformation in the UK, I didn't lose one family or friend to it, so maybe the issue isn't the information itself?
Perhaps your individual situation is different? I'm American and also lost zero family members, though it fucked some of us up.
But I think it's a liberal brainworm to think protecting misinformation is important. It's a misunderstanding of how ideology works to think that simply being better-educated will solve the issue.
Yea America has pretty well proven that if you let people "do their own research" the majority of them are just going to believe bullshit that allows them to live their lives without confronting the consequences of their actions.
A bunch of people want to keep going out and getting their treats so they sought out information that confirmed their belief that they can do whatever they want and that makes them a good American and a free thinker.
Then a million people died
Thank God we have the freedom for half our country to refuse to wear a piece of cloth that could have saved people lives.
Clearly academic education doesn't mean common sense. Like I say, that misinformation was available in other countries, but people weren't doing it. Maybe it's a US issue rather than a misinformation issue?
The US has it particularly bad but no it's not just a US issue. It was an issue all over Europe too, I know plenty of people believing in nonsense related to Covid, educated people too. Look at how Austrians reacted when the government mandated vaccines.
Also what the fuck does "common sense" even mean? Clearly it's not that common, or there are competing "common senses". I'd rather have mine state-enforced because mine doesn't involve people dying of an easily preventable disease.
also depicting Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh isn't banned in China because it personally offended him and he's like a petty tyrant king. It's because misrepresenting the government is illegal and they take that seriously. Maybe from my stupid western perspective it's going a little too far, but also China wouldn't tolerate something like a Qanon movement, or orther wild ass conspiracy theories, so at least they have that going on.
How is a meme "misrepresenting the government" is someone going to look at the picture and think "yes, that's clearly literal, China is run by a anthropomorphic teddy bear from literature".
it's a blanket ban on anything that could be considered defamation or caricature of government officials. Like I said I actually think it's going too far, but I get the idea. It's to stop conspiracy theories and wild rumors before they start. Like I don't know, a person doesn't have to believe it's literal. A confused person could come to any weird conclusions like that Xi Jinping works for Disney or that he played Winnie the Pooh in a movie. I don't know the exact argument but it otherwise tracks with the ban on misrepresentation. Take it up with the Chinese state, not me, but it seems like something very minor to even care about. "I can't call the president a cartoon bear" yeah ok do something else with your time then, who gives a shit
You don't think not being able to mock and joke about your countries leadership is an issue?
Jester's privilege isn't something I can eat or sleep inside
Why does it have to be a binary? It's possible to have freedom of speech and a well run nation. In fact, of China are doing as well as you all seem to think, they have nothing to worry about with criticism or mockery since they can point at their record to disprove it.
Do you think China proving its accomplishments will make the CIA leave? Will building another hospital make the Falun Gong stop accepting money from foreign intelligence? Is this simply a question of winning hearts or is this a country trying to defend itself?
Does a country benefit from having a free press that makes shit up and acts as a vector for hostile foreign governments?
Because you just now framed it as me framing it as one? I'm just pointing out that the right to criticize is A) sometying they have in China and B) Not actually a useful tool for making change on it's own. We can complain all we want here about how our kids are hungry, but start actually feeding them, start taking real action and improving the lives of the impoverished, and the feds will straight up kill you like they did Hampton. In America, our "right to free speech" is a consolation prize for living in a giant human blender, and we are raised to think that the right to complain ineffectually about the blender is just as good as not living in one.
Well, that shit is allowed in the West and the West is garbage. Maybe living in an actual decentralized democratic country where you have actual influence is more important than being allowed to make memes?
There is a reason that Western leaders don't give a shit, and it's that they know any criticism or parody of them has no influence whatsoever.
Literally only a year since public outcry over Boris Johnsons behaviour saw him ousted as PM, then Liz Truss after him.
Leaders doing a good job don't feat parody as they can point at their record to disprove it, if China is a brilliant as you say, why can't they do similar?
Liz Truss replacing Boris Johnson is like replacing cyanide with arsenic. It's hardly anything to point to as an accomplishment.
And no matter how many accomplishments the CPC and Xi Jingping have, it seems like they're still under threat of external aggression and foreign misinformation campaigns. The ban on misinformation is a tactic to fight internal sabotage as much as it is a fight against the USA and Europe. Imperialist countries have been drooling for a way to instigate revolt in China for decades now and I'm gonna try to understand why they take such tactics.
Well I'm not Chinese, so I'm not gonna tell them how to run their country, but I can understand how widespread of a problem misinformation can be.
Personally as a desperate American if I had even a sliver of what people in China have, the better urban planning, the robust train system, the widespread home ownership, 40 years of rising wages, better healthcare system, etc. If I had all of that I'd agree to never speak again.
So you're asking the wrong person, I've got deeper priorities than what kind of jokes I'm allowed to make. A dozen members of my family died of covid, and in China they arrested people for nonsense conspiracy theories about covid, the same kind of misinformation that killed my family. That's where I'm coming from here..
I don't think freedom of speech and good public services need to be a binary. Many Scandinavian countries manage to have both.
In terms of misinformation, the answer isn't to ban speech, it's to have a better educated population who can recognise and not get fooled so easily. For what it's worth, we had people spreading Covid misinformation in the UK, I didn't lose one family or friend to it, so maybe the issue isn't the information itself?
Perhaps your individual situation is different? I'm American and also lost zero family members, though it fucked some of us up.
But I think it's a liberal brainworm to think protecting misinformation is important. It's a misunderstanding of how ideology works to think that simply being better-educated will solve the issue.
Yea America has pretty well proven that if you let people "do their own research" the majority of them are just going to believe bullshit that allows them to live their lives without confronting the consequences of their actions.
A bunch of people want to keep going out and getting their treats so they sought out information that confirmed their belief that they can do whatever they want and that makes them a good American and a free thinker.
Then a million people died
Thank God we have the freedom for half our country to refuse to wear a piece of cloth that could have saved people lives.
Unsure how better education will keep my relatives from consuming horse dewormer to prevent covid.
These people have university degrees. Post graduates even.
Do they need another ten years of schooling? Or do we need to stop the misinformation by force?
Clearly academic education doesn't mean common sense. Like I say, that misinformation was available in other countries, but people weren't doing it. Maybe it's a US issue rather than a misinformation issue?
The US has it particularly bad but no it's not just a US issue. It was an issue all over Europe too, I know plenty of people believing in nonsense related to Covid, educated people too. Look at how Austrians reacted when the government mandated vaccines.
Also what the fuck does "common sense" even mean? Clearly it's not that common, or there are competing "common senses". I'd rather have mine state-enforced because mine doesn't involve people dying of an easily preventable disease.
I think being able to give serious criticism based on concrete claims is incomparably more important and that actually is allowed