I'm hoping this doesn't start a fight, I'm just curious what the political orientation is of this community. I grew up in a liberal (in the American sense) family, and I identify now as a socialist, though a lot of the liberalism I grew up in has stuck with me, like interest in LGBTQ and women's rights, environmentalism, etc. Wondering where people here land?
It's kind of a joke how liberals say "they are socially progressive but fiscally conservative," while the whole definition of liberalism in the Amerikan States is messed up.
But it's also not a joke in the sense that there are two wolves inside me: le puritan Leninist that is primarily concerned with (redacted) and people's war. and bisexual femboy
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Do not fucking dare to speak for us with your ahistoric ideas about gay rights. No communist government during the 20th century was worse than western countries on "equal rights" for LGBTQIA+ people. Because we didn't have equal rights anywhere in the world in the last century. Are you a literal fucking child that you're unaware of that or are you just the typical liberal that completely lacks object permanence and immediately forgets how he has actively supported the oppression of marginalized people once the mainstream consensus has moved on? That doesn't mean the USSR's treatment of gay people wasn't atrocious, it means that we were legally persecuted everywhere. The USSR threw gay people in jail, so did the USA and West Germany and the UK. Gay men were actively hunted by the law in the bourgeoise democracies you love so much. Germany had forced sterilization of trans people seeking a name change until 2011 (btw the DDR didn't have a law like that on the books). Fuck you for thinking us having at least some basic human rights has always been the status quo of the enlightened west since forever, i still have to struggle against my goverment and my healthcare system all the damn time while my people are being actively singled out and villified through multimillion euro harassment campaigns backed by our conservative party. How do you fucking dare to explain to me how free i am under this joke of a system? Democracy is a fucking nightmare when you're a minority of less than 1% of the population. Majority rule means minorities are treated like dirt. Free speech means that the majority is free to shout us down while we are being silenced.
Regarding your idiot takes on the DDR, backed by wikiepdia links (lol) that you, in typical liberal fashion, didn't even read, the "equal rights" situation was actually better in the DDR, were gay sex was legalized in 1968 instead of 1994 like in the West, which only had a partial legalization a year after the DDR and retained a significantly higher age of consent for gay relationships, as judges and lawmakers back then were firmly convinced the being gay spread by social contagion and that vulnerable young men had to be protected from predatory queers trying to turn them gay. That was the actual legal consensus about gay sex throughout the mid 20th century in Germany. If you knew ANYTHING about gay rights in Germany, you'd be aware of this, it's a key part of queer German history how the West perpetuated fascist views about queerness. West German conservatives were thinking out loud about throwing gay people in camps in the 1980s. But you aren't, because you're a clueless het shit trying to straightsplain queer rights to queer people.
10/10, no notes.
i never understood LGBTQ people who identify as liberals given these regimes heavily persecuted LGBTQ people and continue to persecute them to this day (the U.S. for example)
Yeah it's not like the countries with the highest acceptance and rights of lgbtq people are liberal democracies, lol
I have a lot of thoughts about this as a trans person, and a communist. For one I strongly dislike the way liberals try to use queer people to excuse their war machine - it just gives the cover for bigots abroad to veil their misogyny and transphobia as "anti-imperialism"
Liberals are not doing queer people a service by making them the political football. You're not helping queer people in the countries you sanction and lay waste to either. Stonewall was a riot. If you're poor, queer people have not been really "accepted" in places like the US until relatively recently- it took 9 unelected people in robes to allow gay marriage, and Obama "evolved" on it.
As a trans person, the outcome that would directly benefit me the most from political action would be the immediate abolition of private property - ie decommodifying housing, and guaranteeing healthcare- nationalizing the for-profit healthcare. It's no good to me that my rights are "accepted" in the west if I can't afford to fucking transition and I'm living on the street. But I guess that would be "authoritarian"
No it wouldn't, given they didn't have rights in the Soviet Union, which abolished private property.
I don't really buy into tankies complaining about "the war machine" when they back Russian and Chinese imperialism. Something tells me you don't care about trans rights when Russia directly claims to be fighting LGBTQ people in Ukraine.
If my options are 1. unsafe living situations at home 2. unsafe living situations in shelters 3. unsafe living situations on the street + police encounters, a khrushchyovka sounds pretty fucking good.
What good are rights when you're poor and hungry with no fucking housing?
edit- NATO has couped/overthrown a lot of governments before Ukraine.
CW: SA
spoiler
In Greece during the coup "the US ambassador in Athens, Phillips Talbot, complained to Maury ((Athens CIA chief) one week after the brutal change of power that the US coup represented 'a rape of democracy'. Maury answered: 'How can you rape a whore?
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I'm on hexbear, and I didn't dodge the point you just didn't make one worth addressing xaxa.
Having stable housing makes a big fucking difference to even being able to transition. Speaking from experience.
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I literally just addressed that though, maybe try reading with that big ol brain of yours.
yeah, you owned that trans person, you're such a good progressive
She has a very thorough response, you're just willfully refusing to acknowledge it due to being a self-absorbed asshole
I thought startrek fans understood the concept of empathy?
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You should be used as a test subject for bottom surgery. Doctors should practice on your baby dick how to construct a clit and labiae minorae.
You're the most arrogant piece of shit i have seen all week. You're the prime example of why i hate liberals and why i cannot trust a single one of you while i'm being faced with economic hardships and trans exterminatory represion in one of the Western European nations you believe to be so flawless on LGBT rights. We do not even exist as actual human beings to you, we're nothing to you but a political football you can kick around. Every single one of your replies in this comment chain screams with the disdain you have for us when we dare to object, you transphobic turd. You do not listen to a single thing queer people have to tell you about our liberatory struggles and instead dare to lecture us with nothing to back your claims up but your unwavering faith in the genocidal Amerikan empire, your unceasing disdain for all of Amerika's enemies and your baby brained paranoia about everything that threatens your joke of a worldview being a russian disinfo campaign, while your own rulign class has pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into transphobic disinfo alone, not to mention the vastly bigger budgets they spend on issues like climate change denial.
Preach!
I'm sorry, hold on, who the fuck are you to tell anyone what their material conditions are without having asked or brought receipts of their claims? What exactly are you doing asking questions about people's "political orientation", and yet you seem to already know everything about everyone? What are you doing?
Ornamental "rights" and "freedoms" that serve no tangible benefit to the material and social conditions of the working class are virtues in name only.
The US has had liberal democracy for quite a while now, and guess what? It's a massive failure. The US is a failed state. Widespread illiteracy, decaying social and material conditions, widespread immiseration and loss of dignity, skyrocketing inflation, plummeting purchasing power for the working class, odious student and medical debt, widespread corruption, endless forever wars against the working class of other countries, environmental breakdown with collapsing ecosystems due to deliberately perpetuated fossil fuel dependence, collapsing bridges and other crumbling infrastructure, subway systems that are de-facto sewers like in New York City, tent cities as far as the eye can see, home ownership nigh-impossible for the vast majority, over 50% of millennials and even higher percentage of young people having to live with their parents because rents are beyond absurd, increasingly more young people unable to afford their own transportation... But what, you can talk shit about your politicians or whatever the fuck?
Tell me, oh lord of the Gospel Truth, what are your solutions to the failed state you call the US?
Bull. Shit. The way you've condescended and sneered at people here has proven the complete opposite. You showed your whole ass just like that.
Poor people don't deserve time or very basic things? Are poor people just robots who should labor 24/7? Is being poor a crime? Why should they have to work harder than someone born into wealth, with none of the tools a wealthy person has on top of that? Why should they endure that punishment?
Of course, poor people have the internet, you can't get a job without the internet lmao.
Who are you to demand someone who has less than you work harder than you?
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Its common for poor people to have phones, if you've actually ventured outside of your racist bubble maybe you would see the real world, you fucking toddler
you do know phones are pretty affordable now, right?
how about this. a person has $100, they spent $60 on rent and are left with $40 for other expenses and leisure. assuming hrt isnt free, you may not have any money left.
now, lets say Government says housing is only 10% of your income. So you are left with $90, even if hrt isn't free, you can purchase it.
ik ik galaxy brain ideas like 'if you have more money you will be able to spend it on things' can be very hard to comprehend.
i also want to know. why are you defending private property? do you own capital?
In fact, you can get a phone for free if you qualify for Medicaid or food stamps.
In the USA. In Germany (not the GDR in which only very few didn't have a home) if you have are unhoused you have to wait a (couple of) years before you get a flat in the current market and then you get the rent paid (up to a point) and roughly 500 Euro for everything else (you have to pay for utilities, electricity etc. from that 500 Euro).
Since Covid you can ask for a one time amount of up to 350 Euro for smartphone/notebooks/smartbooks to be able to get educated. You will not have money leftover at the end of the month, but will have plenty of free time.
T&Cs apply, stuff might be worse
For example if you are in the out group you might not get most or any of that. Fuck fortress
What does being poor and hungry have to do with posting online or having time? I have lots of time because I'm unable to work.
im trans, cuba has the best laws for trans people in the whole world and they have free gender affirming healthcare. youll also find that hexbear has the highest proportion of trans to cis users of any major lemmy instance (as you can note by all the trans people responding to you), socialism and communism has been a strong current in the trans community since before stonewall, as noted by leslie feinberg, a trans communist and the person that invented most modern trans nomenclature.
fuckin liberals man
Your liberalism has blinded you to the idea that struggling poor people have access to the library and that having a cheap-ass smartphone is ubiquitous.
Consider rejoining humanity.
Shut the fuck up you dumb cis shit. You're telling trans people that we don't care about our persecution in Russia. You are lecturing us about our legal and economic situation without understanding ANYTHING about the problems we face. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.Fuck you. Fuck you.
oh my lord you're one of the stupidest fucking people
YOU HAVE QUEER PEOPLE TRYING TO TELL YOU THEIR REAL WORLD VIEWS YOU FUCKING MORON! IF YOU CARE SO MUCH THEN MAYBE TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE KOOLAID AND LISTEN YOU FUCKING DIPSHIT
You're going to have to provide sources for the claim that people didn't have rights in the Soviet Union.
Private property is not personal property. Private property is property that is meant for the purpose of exploiting workers to pocket the surplus value of their labor privately, rather than sharing it collectively.
Business enterprises, factories and other such relevant entities owned by private capital are examples of private property. In other words, the means of production under private ownership.
Personal property would be someone's personal residence (not used for commercial purposes (including landlording)) and all of their worldly possessions within. It would also include things like their car, or toothbrush, or their wardrobe.
But hey, you want to talk shit about the Soviet Union, so here you go, you tell me if the charges levied against the US are accurate in this video: Soviet Media's Portrait of America During the 1980s. CIA Declassified Video
Provide receipts of everything here. China for sure is non-interventionist and hasn't been at war for over 40 years. They care most about peaceful development, win-win cooperation, national rejuvenation, global development and a shared future for humanity.
Russia's war in Ukraine is in response to NATO expansion continuing to surround and encroach on their borders. Russia certainly has issues with anti-LGBTQ culture, which is condemned by us routinely. However, provide receipts of them claiming to be fighting LGBTQ people in Ukraine. If anything, they've claimed (and been correct) to be fighting neo-nazis and banderites that have been supported, nurtured, and installed into power by the US since at least 2014.
Also, we critically (emphasis on critically) support Russia's role in depleting NATO stockpiles of weapons, undermining and weakening US and dollar hegemony, and giving permission to all countries of the world to stand up for their own national interests in defiance of the US empire. Just because we see Russia as useful in this context of class struggle and liberation of the Global South does not mean we support or endorse everything about Russia. Nuance, historical and geopolitical literacy are key to understanding anything at all about the trends of the times and where we're headed.
so, first of all, there is a wider horizon of communist vision than "implement all of the most reactionary policies of the soviet union" so jot that down.
second, queer people in the soviet union had varying levels of rights and social acceptance throughout its history, but at no point were they as oppressed and persecuted as they are in modern day Russia, a capitalist democracy.
third, left opposition to NATO warmongering in Ukraine isn't support of Russia. this canard is employed to shut down any criticism of a foreign policy agenda that is willfully contributing to the deaths of Ukrainians for the sake of defense industry profits and US hegemony. If you want to have coherent responses to political positions other than your own, you have to understand what they actually are. you can't just say "actually you're lying about what you believe because i don't understand it."
That first part os essential and what libs can not get through their heads. "We are the heirs to the worlds revolutions" speech by Sankara in the 80s was all about this. Why would we copy things or even want to copy things that are now regarded as reactionary? Its even clear when the country that currently has the best rights for LGBTQ+ is communist
Its actually not like the countries with the highest acceptance are liberal democracies
I've got 4 letters for ya. C U B A
The Queer liberation movement has long been spearheaded by communists. Harry Hay, Sylvia Rivera, Rudolf Klimmer, and many others, were all communists who, in some form or another pushed forward the cause of queer liberation.
On the whole, Socialist states in the 20th century were no better or worse on queer issues than any liberal democracy. We were treated like shit pretty much everywhere. They were not special in this regard.
A notable exception was East Germany, which, though not without flaws, had a far better queer rights track record than its Western capitalist counterpart:
You can check out the new Cuba family code. It was heavily discussed and amended at the lower councils and then passed through to the national level. Also, Fidel did have some conservative beliefs regarding gay people in the past, but he later took back what he said and supported LGBTQ+. The DDR was also wildly progressive on the gender, sexuality, and feminist front. I have heard that the DPRK is slightly culturally conservative in the aspect that public displays of affection are generally frowned upon, but LGBTQ+ are not persecuted, but neither outright celebrated. Similar position to China and Vietnam.
The takeaway for LGBTQ+ rights is not corporate sponsors, pride parades, and consumption -- but if they are free to be themselves. Are they committing sewerslide in droves? Being targeted by death squads? In many parts of the West, many of their rights are being rolled back or threatened, especially in Amerika. Not all AES support for LGBTQ+ community is perfect, but that would be due to the limiting factor of traditional, conservative views held by the majority population -- not socialism.
I'm aware of Cuba's recent laws regarding LGBTQ rights. Cuba for decades sent homosexuals and trans people into internment camps because they were "deviants" and only recently has enacted LGBTQ rights because it's been forced to open up to the rest of the world after the fall of the Soviet Union. Also it's just one example, whereas the largest ML country, China, heavily represses anyone who is not heteronormative. So does North Korea. So did the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc. It was in liberal democracies where LGBTQ people first gained rights and have the strongest rights.
hi i'm trans and i live in florida, where are my human rights you dickhead? where are your precious liberals?
They're not in communist countries. And Florida is led by illiberal increasingly anti-democratic figures that are directly inspired by Russia and even China, so what a terrible example to counteract my point, lol
"inspired by Russia and even China"
dawg what.
AmeriKKKans are incapable of realizing the evil is coming from inside the house
The GOP is directly inspired by the homophobic attitudes in both countries. Have you been living under a rock?
Conservatives have been homophobic and racist since there has been a conservative. "Actually China did that"
"here is why it is China's fault for Amerika being rascist"
Love to accuse communists of being intolerant and socially conservative while engaging in Yellow Perilism and saying that America's problems are the fault of evil inferior foreigners
You don't even believe this yourself.
There is absolutely no way that you don't understand that the GOP's anti-queer stance is 100% homegrown, and you're only trying to make this ridiculous argument because you're incapable of admitting that your previous comments on this topic are all bullshit.
Do better and just take the L, this isn't fucking reddit.
" Americas problems are caused by foreigners"
Scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds.
lmao are you doing a shitty bit, what absolute fuckin nonsense, absolving western homophobes of responsibility and agency while simultaneously peddling a racist conspiracy theory, get a grip you shitlib
the idea that all western fascists must just be corrupted by the evil orientals is incredibly racist (because western liberal democracy is so perfect and enlightened (unlike those savage eastern authoritarians) that it could never organically give rise to fascism without outside interference).
please take a look in the mirror and consider your incredibly racist and infantilising views that fascism cannot organically emerge on its own in western liberal democracies without outside meddling
You have the causality backwards. It's America that has spread blackest reaction throughout the globe
You're not even trying anymore. "The GOP is directly inspired by China". Please, post receipts
https://www.guancha.cn/politics/2019_08_21_514563.shtml
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-lgbt-un/china-urged-to-take-action-on-lgbt-rights-after-backing-u-n-changes-idUSKCN1QO1MU
https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%80%A7%E5%B0%91%E6%95%B0%E7%BE%A4%E4%BD%93/19500488
https://issuu.com/undp-china/docs/undp-ch-legal_gender_recognition_-_
Homosexuality in China and Does China Ban the LGBT movement?
China has trans healthcare. You can find LGBTQ stuff on Bilibili or Baidu. China has a three-no policy. No approval. No disapproval. No promotion. As for you -- no investigation, no right to speak.
As for Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc goes...
Article 121 (the "anti-gay law" passed by the head soviet) was designed as an anti-pederasty law. If you look at the law text,it mentions or at least implies pedophilia.
To quote The Sangha kommune:
"Article 121, despite its curious reading, appears to have been designed to protect Soviet society from the menace of child abuse and paedophilia, although it is recorded that Soviet academia was interested in the practice of homosexuality from a medical perspective, and attempting to ascertain its root cause (with a number of early Soviet researchers following the Czarist assumption of aberration). This did not mean that homosexuals were persecuted – far from it – the general underlying trend in the USSR was to end all oppression, and facilitate the integration of the individual into the collective."
https://thesanghakommune.org/2016/12/28/the-ussr-and-homosexuality-article-21/ There’s no objective, verifiable evidence of a persecution of homosexuals in the USSR
To quote Sangha Kommune again:
Research By Adrian Chan-Wyles PhD
"The fact that the Soviet Union was considered enlightened and tolerant demonstrates that these laws were not applied as a deliberate attack upon homosexuals – although in the 1930’s, certain homosexual activity became associated with specific counter-revolutionary activity. In this regard, homosexuals who strove to bring-down the USSR were treated as ‘criminals’ – just as their heterosexual colleagues. Soviet records demonstrate that Joseph Stalin… was responding to various police reports about contemporary counter-revolutionary activities (usually within major cities). "
"Modern (capitalist) Russia has now imported much of the anti-Soviet Cold War disinformation fabricated by the US (and her allies) between 1945 – 1991. As a result, many modern Russian authors side with the reactionary forces of capitalism and adopt this pseudo-history as their own (apparently not realising its ‘racist’ anti-Slavic nature). The above article is anti-Soviet and is designed to give the impression that the USSR carried-out a continued pogrom against homosexuals – even though its author continuously states that there is no evidence to support his claims. Indeed, the only evidence the author can muster is ‘Western’ Cold War authors whose work – as pieces of official fiction – contain no Russian language sources. However, I have quoted this piece where I have been able to verify the facts within Russian language sources. It remains informative on two counts, 1) as a narrative history of homosexuality in Russia from early times to present, and 2) as a study of modern (Russian) anti-Soviet literature. I have found no objective, verifiable evidence of a deliberate persecution of homosexuals in the USSR. "
https://thesanghakommune.org/2017/01/05/the-ussr-and-homosexuality-part-iii-rsfsr-article-154a/
LGBTQ+ being put into camps in Cuba is also straight-up an anti-communist myth.
To say that "It was in liberal democracies where LGBTQ people first gained rights and have the strongest rights." is ridiculous. AES countries had LGBTQ+ rights first and continued progressing, The DDR was fairly progressive in the 1980s and continued to progress -- similar to the USSR and Eastern Bloc, however, I discussed the famous article 121 above how ""homosexuality was recriminalized. Meanwhile, during the Red Scare in Amerika, gays were specifically investigated because they were seen as more likely to be communists. In many parts of the West, it took until the late 20th and early 21st centuries for the advancement of rights for the LGBTQ+ community.
https://www.economist.com/china/2023/05/25/why-the-communist-party-fears-gay-rights
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Russia#Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Cuba#Homophobia_and_labor_camps_during_the_1960s
So no, reality doesn't conform to what you're saying.
It was less progressive than West Germany/West Berlin, and only began tolerating LGBTQ people (not granting them equal rights) after opening up more to the West near the end of its existence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_German_Democratic_Republic
Even the wikipedia article on LGBT rights in Germany, despite being very slanted and anti-communist, admit that West Germany had no national progress in gay rights until after the cold war. Saying the West/West Germany was more progressive and tolerant is just straight up false.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Germany
Sources: LE FUCKIN ECONOMIST -- "journal that speaks for British billionaires." It's just more anti-China absurd nonsense. AT LEAST TAKE A LOOK AT MY BAIDU LINK WHICH IS LITERALLY WRITTEN BY A PERSON LIVING IN CHINA. It summarizes things nicely, and you could just translate it.
do some more digging than just wiki.
the sources that wiki links for its claims are: " #37Archive from Resource Information Center Washington D.C in 1998. Their claim of punishment for sodomy and homosexual relationships being 5 years of hard labor was States News Service 28 May 1991; The San Francisco Chronicle 18 Oct. 1992. I found the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper article, but it was paywalled, so I will have to see if my local library has it, or if I can get access to it.
Then the book "Hidden from history: reclaiming the gay and lesbian past" from pages 347-364 "Russia's gay literature and culture :the impact of the October revolution" by Simon Karlinsky -- gay scholar of Russian literature at Berkley. He often contends that the "Marxist Leninist ideology is at odds with homosexuality." Why does he contend that? Good question. He says the ideology goes against homosexuality. Which is weird, because he isn't arguing about real world socialism, but the ideology, which is synthesized from many socialist authors/works/theories but isn't inheritly anti-homosexual
The actual wiki states " there were several high-profile arrests of Russian men accused of being pederasts. In 1933, 130 men "were accused of being 'pederasts' – adult males who have sex with boys. Since no records of men having sex with boys at that time are available, it is possible this term was used broadly and crudely to label homosexuality"
And I am getting a 404 to the 43rd resource
The book "Homosexual Desire in Revolutionary Russia: The Regulation of Sexual and Gender Dissent" by Dan Healy is referenced a lot. He actually is pro lenin, (and trotsky?), but very anti-Stalin, and uses a lot of primary sources/narratives about sexuality in the USSR.
" "In the first criminal code they composed after the revolution (1922), the Bolsheviks decriminalized sodomy. They did so because they were intent on secularizing and medicalizing the language of sexual crime. Old Testament concepts like "sodomy," "fornication," and "feminine honor" were purged from the law. In their place came a modernized, gender-neutral language to describe a sexual revolution. Henceforth, the sexual inviolability of all young persons was to be protected by the state, and the maximum self-determination was offered to both adult men and women: freedom to marry and divorce without having to explain why, freedom to engage in harmless consensual sexual relations without the interference of a moralizing higher authority. Homosexual relations were not explicitly welcomed by the Bolsheviks and raised to an equal status with heterosexuality. Yet they were regarded in principle as no great vice. The majority of Bolsheviks perhaps subscribed to the view that homosexuality was a medical condition, probably (if they read the popular sex advice tracts that they sponsored) a hormonal anomaly, and perhaps one day science would be able to control or even eradicate it. In the meantime, the legal persecution of homosexuals found in Britain and Germany was seen as irrational, reactionary, and bourgeois." --- Daniel D Hailey
and from the wiki ITSELF!!
"Soviet legislation does not recognise so-called crimes against morality. Our laws proceed from the principle of protection of society and therefore countenance punishment only in those instances when juveniles and minors are the objects of homosexual interest (emphasis mine, because that is literally what I was fucking saying)"
—Sereisky, Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 1930, p. 593
DO YOU NOT READ? Even from le ant-commie wiki. 5 short paragraphs are all for "Stalin era"
and again, this is in THE FUCKING 1930s. THE BASTION OF "LIBERAL DEMOCRACY" IN AMERIKKKA IS LYNCHING BLACK PEOPLE
Also, the thing about Cuba is again, a myth. I am not going into that. But you can't use WIKI AS A SOURCE. They are a compilation of sources. Can give a good run-down on things. Generally bad for political stuff. And there is a lot more shit I wanna say but I have to go to work very soon.
ALSO YOUR FUCKING NONSENSE ABOUT THE DDR IS STRAIGHT-UP INCORRECT. LIKE ACTUALLY STUPID. LIKE THE MOST STUPID THING I HAVE HEARD ALL DAY. AFTER HEARING THAT, I AM ENDING THIS CONVERSATION.
I am going to touch le grass. not bother replying to Kautsky
The US didn't decriminalize homosexuality until 2003, decades after most of the Eastern Bloc. You're kidding yourself.
Wikipedia links got thrown around like it's the absolute truth source, people would frown upon Wikipedia link back then and linking them is more of a reference. For sensitive topic like politic, people should praise a big doubt if it's from Wikipedia.
Furthermore, linking and not even quoting relevant points is just lazy and low effort.
My gay uncle was thrown into jail in West Germany in the early 1970s. He then moved to Berlin and spend most of his time in East Berlin. The GDR was in many cases more progressive than the FRG (West Germany). For example:
You’re just straight up lying about Cuba, shut the fuck up.
The UMAPs only existed for 32 months between 1965 and 1968, they were an awful failing of the government but to claim that the cuban government did this for decades as a point of policy is a blatant ahistorical lie.
It's also worth noting that just 60 miles off Cuba's coast in the United States, it was only in 2003 that the government made it so that gay men would no longer be thrown in jail and forced to carry out labour for pay low enough that it would (depending on the state) legally be classified as slave labour if they weren't imprisoned.
Look, I'm no fan of how Cuba treated it's queer population historically. That much we agree on.
But to suggest that Cuban queers have no agency of their own, and pretend like Cuba only passed its family code because it was "Forced to open up to the rest of the world" portrays an incredible ignorance of Cuban history and politics.
It's something that often people will point to how communists heavily persecute LGBTQ people but ignore that the people who fought for LGBTQ liberation in the western world were Marxists, MLs, Maoists, or worked very closely with those groups.
Thank you for your concern, i guess
🥰
I feel like i did something wrong