I'm not reading that I hope it took like 2 hours to write. I don't need any of this explained to me because its my life.
It took about 15 minutes to write lol. These things aren't complicated and they don't require a lot of thinking or research if you're already familiar with them. At least, not on my part. It's handy when you have people embedded in the thing around you, something you keep claiming to have. In fact, you've use it like a cudgel, as most of what I've said was previously ignored as well. But you have certainly taken the time to say you were at the convention.
I've found this interaction demoralizing
Given that you're making piss-poor excuses for the cowardly liberal behavior of the DSA dissolving its BDS group and tiptoeing around having a good-faith engagement with anyone here on this topic, should I think of it as a bad thing if you are demoralized? Isn't that the best possible outcome if someone has dug in their heels to protect reaction? Nobody forced you to comment on defense of DSA's current incompetencies to organize in defense of Palestine. The preferable alternative would not be me accepting that DSA's national attacks on BDS and Palestinian organizing are actually okay and oh I'm so sympathetic to 1000 people being involved in it. The preferable alternative would be that you didn't dig in your heels and hold a false political line (one I've heard before from an NPC member by the way) with deflection and a revealing victim-blaming removal of agency from the DSA liberals. I felt like re-listing the blatant anti-BDS failures of DSA national just now, but that would presume you're interested in contending with them.
and I'm sure that your constant nay saying is driving people away from the socialist ideas.
On the contrary, I've been able to get several people involved in the last week by doing actually useful things in solidarity with Palestine. And all I've seen from DSA locally is tailing of the work I and others have done, including making picket signs that gave the impression they had organized rallies and marches that they hadn't.
What drives people away from DSA (which is surely what is really meant by "the socialist ideas") is its fundamental dysfunction, not valid criticism from communists. It is dysfunctional due to its ideological incoherence combined with an inability to resolve the inevitable conflicts and onboard its members into a political program. New members are left to fend for themselves to try and understand the Kabuki around who's really making decisions and what is available to them. It proceeds, ironically in our conversation, through the attrition of people who get tired of fighting about fundamentally incompatible ideas. They also leave because of how difficult it can be to get anything done in toxic chapters, which is clearly most of them (but not all! e.g. Portland is pretty functional).
But what would I know, I'm.just a counterproductive, cynical reactionary liberal.
I would not describe you as such. I would infer that you are unreasonably optimistic about the state of the DSA and the convention, so presumably part of one of the caucuses with seats on the NPC and potentially close to the NPC yourself. I have heard your line before from people on the NPC. I know very well that it is a political one intended to support (what you believe is) the organization, not one that is actually true.
I'm sure we could slap some epithets on that but they would not describe the primary issues in the roadblocks to this engagement.
Thank god a real leftist stood up to show me the way back to the armchair. Here my politics are immaculate and untouched from reality, where opinion becomes truth
A truly incredible thing to say. Do you not see the irony in saying that to a person whose irl organizing you know nothing about? That you had to lie in order to say it? lol
It took about 15 minutes to write lol. These things aren't complicated and they don't require a lot of thinking or research if you're already familiar with them. At least, not on my part. It's handy when you have people embedded in the thing around you, something you keep claiming to have. In fact, you've use it like a cudgel, as most of what I've said was previously ignored as well. But you have certainly taken the time to say you were at the convention.
Given that you're making piss-poor excuses for the cowardly liberal behavior of the DSA dissolving its BDS group and tiptoeing around having a good-faith engagement with anyone here on this topic, should I think of it as a bad thing if you are demoralized? Isn't that the best possible outcome if someone has dug in their heels to protect reaction? Nobody forced you to comment on defense of DSA's current incompetencies to organize in defense of Palestine. The preferable alternative would not be me accepting that DSA's national attacks on BDS and Palestinian organizing are actually okay and oh I'm so sympathetic to 1000 people being involved in it. The preferable alternative would be that you didn't dig in your heels and hold a false political line (one I've heard before from an NPC member by the way) with deflection and a revealing victim-blaming removal of agency from the DSA liberals. I felt like re-listing the blatant anti-BDS failures of DSA national just now, but that would presume you're interested in contending with them.
On the contrary, I've been able to get several people involved in the last week by doing actually useful things in solidarity with Palestine. And all I've seen from DSA locally is tailing of the work I and others have done, including making picket signs that gave the impression they had organized rallies and marches that they hadn't.
What drives people away from DSA (which is surely what is really meant by "the socialist ideas") is its fundamental dysfunction, not valid criticism from communists. It is dysfunctional due to its ideological incoherence combined with an inability to resolve the inevitable conflicts and onboard its members into a political program. New members are left to fend for themselves to try and understand the Kabuki around who's really making decisions and what is available to them. It proceeds, ironically in our conversation, through the attrition of people who get tired of fighting about fundamentally incompatible ideas. They also leave because of how difficult it can be to get anything done in toxic chapters, which is clearly most of them (but not all! e.g. Portland is pretty functional).
I would not describe you as such. I would infer that you are unreasonably optimistic about the state of the DSA and the convention, so presumably part of one of the caucuses with seats on the NPC and potentially close to the NPC yourself. I have heard your line before from people on the NPC. I know very well that it is a political one intended to support (what you believe is) the organization, not one that is actually true.
I'm sure we could slap some epithets on that but they would not describe the primary issues in the roadblocks to this engagement.
A truly incredible thing to say. Do you not see the irony in saying that to a person whose irl organizing you know nothing about? That you had to lie in order to say it? lol