My family are mostly Democrat voting liberals and I identified as one for years. When I was in 5th grade I spent more time with my Fox News-watching grandparents and became a Republican for like a year or 2 and became an apolitical lib for a while. From like 2015-2019 I was a Bernie bro who had some objectively shit takes. The biggest 180 I did was probably on the sex trade. I used to be for it as a horny teen like “huh? Did someone say SeX?? Well it’s all ConSeNsUAL so why cockblock someone from getting some PuSsY?” Obviously now I realize that’s a disgusting sentiment and that most people in the industry are not happy and would rather do anything else. Just because a few are happy with their line of work, it doesn’t make it right to force so many others into a position where they feel abused and humiliated or threatened. “Legitimacy of industry” in terms of prostitution always means lining the pockets of abusive pimps (physical or anything else) who will use the opportunity to get rich and usually fund illegal markets (source: Look at Nevada). Enough about me, what topics have become more clear to yall after becoming a communist? I could probably list a few others but I’m interested in seeing what yall say.
I respect all sex workers But the economy of sex work is something I've had a complete 180 on. It's not an industry that should be enabled under the current capitalist parameters.
Same. I used to think this is simply, "sex workers are the ones carrying all the risk and harm, so only their opinion matters. sex worker organisations call for full decriminalisation. /thread"
Until I learned decriminalisation of sex work in the first world leads to increased human trafficking from the Global South: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X12001453#s0045
To put it bluntly, brown women who would otherwise lead their normal lives, are kindapped and smuggled to be raped by white men, in large numbers, whenever a first world country decriminalises prostitution.
This works both ways - criminalising prostitution reduces human trafficking, as shown above in the case study.
People trafficked from the Global South are completely marginalised and poweless, they don't have a voice. The voices we hear, calling for decriminalisation, are mostly from self employed Westerners. And while I genuinely do care about their right to safer work conditions, for me it doesn't trump the right of brown women to not be kidnapped and raped by white men.
I think the policy under capitalism should be complete decriminalization of the actual workers but harsh punishment for Johns and pimps.
Of course! Sex workers should be provided all the care and support they need to get out of the abusive situation.
I couldn’t agree more. It reminds me of a liberal take I saw where they suggested making weed fully illegal and prostitution legal. They posited that weed dealers are worse for society because you can just avoid a prostitute but friends may offer to sell weed. The weed dealers certainly aren’t GOOD. But at least they don’t exploit a person for money and they don’t usually siphon that profit into skeevier and more dangerous black markets. Pimps do BOTH of those things and somehow someway libs and even misguided lefties try to make prostitution into a good societal practice. I’ve also heard the argument that “it’s one of the oldest professions on Earth” and so is monarchy, so are mercenaries. That doesn’t make these professions more honorable or less. It’s what the institution stands for as a whole and prostitution takes vulnerable people in any given society, exploits their lack of opportunities and resources and forces them into an environment that is not good for their health in any ways. Sorry for the rant, Ik we’re all on the same side here but the mere EXISTENCE of that industry, let alone the concept of people outside of that industry defending it just enrages me to no end.
With marijuana legalized it won’t be your friend selling it but some massive corporation. My semi-ironic anti legalization take is that legalization takes weed selling from an industry of small business owners that helps them get by to an industry of massive corporations (who tend to have whiter owners). Of course we should legalize so the small sellers don’t go to jail for nothing. The other anti-legalization argument I have is that the legalized industry as it exists is environmentally destructive, though that calls for nationalization and regulation.
One of the worst prostitution takes I’ve seen is that it’s needed to stop incelism. Why do “sexologists” always have to start with half decent takes and take them to the total extreme?
It’s not even true though. What about farming or crafting? In many places sex used to be “freer” and uncommodified.
Totally agree
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
I dated someone back home in Central America very briefly and she told me about the sex tourism and how they use minors to cater to pedo $.
Most of these man start by offering to fly them back to their country, that's a pedophile power dynamic, where you take a young child out of their home country and somewhere they don't know nothing of, they solely have to rely on this pedo.
I do believe sex workers at the end of the day will be the ones to decide what happens outside of capitalist parameters, but the sex work industry right now under capitalism is filled with sex trafficking, because they're really one in the same.
Even outside of capitalism issues of pedophilia and social ills would still be relevant in the discussion
Pedophiles get the wall
As for SWers what do you do if they still exist in socialism?
I don't want SW to exist in any form, btw I hope that's clear
I admit when it comes to the concept of prostitution in a socialist society, I have more questions than answers. Like what happens if one SWer is more “popular”, for lack of a better term, than others? Do they deserve extra credit for their labor or is it more evenly distributed? If so, what would be the hours? What would be the terms of rejection of a customer? How would customers or “johns” work in this scenario? Who would run the business while simultaneously not being objectively a “pimp”? If it’s an established place that serves food or drinks, is it also just a bar for regular customers or is it ONLY a brothel? It gets confusing to me and obviously if there were enough CONSENTING SWers it would be hypocritical of me to deny them access to an occupation they feel comfortable with, but keeping the industry fair and safe seems like a juggling act that I can’t imagine working well on the first implementation. Maybe after a few tweaks and changes but it seems rather complicated
I am with you 100%. I just want to clarify that
Every time I try to express similar sentiments I'm hit with left book responses
It’s not something that should be enabled under any parameters
I agree comrade, I just don't wanna offend any SWers amongst our ranks. I don't think there is anything ethical about it.
I dated an ex SW... And it was around the time I was very pro sex work because of the leftbook environment that I was in at the time. But she opened my eyes, the topic requires a lot more nuance, and we can't fall victim to romanticizing the economy of SW. Really one can argue that whether voluntary or not the industry of SW preys on young people, especially minors.
The girl I dated said, it happened so fast, she thought it was all on her terms, until years later when she realized how powerless she was. She was into deep, and unfortunately the experience had a very negative effect on her mental health. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Most people (not customers obviously) that are for legal sex work don't think it's good. They (myself included) think it would make it not as bad as it is now.
It's the same as legalizing drugs. People don't use them much more, they just do it with less shit and less violence on average.
I agree, even if it sex work were legal it would lead still bring a lot of harm towards minors, and women. Because of the sex trafficking dynamic laced into the industry of it
I would say legalizing drugs and sex work are two different concepts, as someone who smokes weed and had their life changed by psychedelics I wouldn't want people criminalized for recreational, religious, or spiritual drug use. That being said, crack, heroin, and cocaine are drugs that are only lead to self harm, and should be outlawed.