INAV for the simple reason that I'm not strong enough to have that level of self discipline, and autistically stuck in my food habits, but at some point I realized that vegans are essentially broadly speaking correct. Anyone who cares enough about defending their carnism has clearly had a nerve touched by this meme. Like, why not just ignore it and go on with your life if you're not going to change your habits anyway? You're certainly not going to convince a vegan to stop being vegan (and why would you want to lmao?). So just. Move on? I know we have a posting culture but on this one you really don't need to.
I have some squabbles with certain vegan arguments, mostly in the form of "you're correct but you're argument for it is bad" rather then "i think your argument is literally wrong", but I'm not going to bother fighting for something I dont even actually defend. My biggest thing is that I dont think consumption habits matter that much so I dont know why people fight for it so hard when there are better ways to fight the meat industry than simple consumer choices. But like, the meme still isnt technically wrong.
I have some squabbles with certain vegan arguments, mostly in the form of "you're correct but you're argument for it is bad" rather then "i think your argument is literally wrong"
literally my main criticism, the arguments sometimes are out of touch and dogmatic. But the vast majority have well thought out and consistent arguments, i think. I have rethought my stance on the subject many times due to this place, and i thank hexbear for that.
stop comparing animal husbandry to the atlantic slave trade though, thats just racist. I don't have another example off the top of my head but please do not use the slave trade one.
The reason you don't have any other examples that would be acceptable to you is because nothing would be. You want vegans to sit down and shut up.
Spoon is to soup as front-end loader is to aggregate. The relationship is the same; thing A picks up thing B. Nothing else about them is remotely similar however. The scale, what is picked up, how the device is used, they're different in almost every way, however you can understand that what they do is the same. Am I comparing soup to aggregate? No of course I'm not.
You have to be operating in very bad faith to suggest that many of our most important members here on our communist website are implying "actually slavery wasn't that bad after all."
Edit: Since post is now locked
Directly equating minority oppression with animal abuse
Minorities who are being dehumanized and treated like animals.
Is that because they're less than human fundamentally, or because they're oppressed? (It's the latter in case someone tries to do some logical backflips to interpret this as me saying minorities are less than human)
The reason you don't have any other examples that would be acceptable to you is because nothing would be. You want vegans to sit down and shut up.
uh no i think veganism is actually a good thing in every way. economically more manageable (if you have access to the foodstuffs required), can imitate the taste to a T (My favorite is a vegan brownie recipe that uses beans AND SOMEHOW TASTES THE SAME AS REGULAR BROWNIES WTF), is more healthy to eat at least a majority diet of non meat and dairy foodstuffs (although some arguments can be made for a small amount of meat allowed being healthy if you have a mostly vegan diet), and allows for a good alternative for the inevitable transition out of the meat industry.
Spoon is to soup as front-end loader is to aggregate. The relationship is the same; thing A picks up thing B. Nothing else about them is remotely similar however. The scale, what is picked up, how the device is used, they're different in almost every way, however you can understand that what they do is the same. Am I comparing soup to aggregate? No of course I'm not.
lotta words that don't actually make a point. You critique liberals for calling everything a genocide, and using the double genocide theory to diminish the holocaust. Yet you are completely fine with making the exact same type of argument to diminish The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. I'm listening just fine until you drop something as juvenile as that. Maybe just don't compare it to human attrocities, maybe just justify how bad the meat industry is on its own without doing a 'double slavery theory'.
I really like veganism, just literally this one point i will refuse to bow on. Completely disappointed in whoever makes this silly argument. You have literally an entire world full of arguments to use and yet you are using probably the worst one ever.
It was literally a nitpick, I didn't expect there to be more than one to believe it or actively use it in a discussion. Its only use is some shock value, nothing more.
You have to be operating in very bad faith to suggest that many of our most important members here on our communist website are implying "actually slavery wasn't that bad after all."
Its very bad faith to make my critique out to be some disloyalty to hexbear.
And Im not the one comparing animal husbandry to the imperialism and enslavement of a continent over the course of centuries, resulting in the largest injustice in the history of humanity. I get that the animals shouldn't be slaughtered, but that is its own evil, you don't need to make such a silly argument. That is literally it. Not a critique of veganism, but of specific bad arguments that can be done better.
What, are you comparing my analogy about the meat industry to the genocide of the Jews? How dare you.
This is what you sound like.
The problem with the double genocide theory is that there was only one genocide. If I related the dynamic of parents giving children bedtimes to genocide you might have a point, because the relationship is not comparable. If you compare the dynamics of a genocide to those of a non-genocide that's genocide denial because there's literally no comparison.
We aren't "comparing" them, we aren't "equating" them, we're looking at two relationships. You've gotta be trying to not understand if you can't understand that.
The problem is that when veganism comes up you turn your brains off and say some unhinged nihilistic shit that you
Yeah, the only reason we keep asking for people to stop directly equating minority oppression with animal abuse is because we want vegans to shut up. Exactly. Of course.
I dont know why people fight for it so hard when there are better ways to fight the meat industry than simple consumer choices.
One big reason is to decouple your material interests from those of the meat industry. Someone is much less likely to oppose its cruelties if they're benefiting from them by getting cheap and plentiful meat.
INAV for the simple reason that I'm not strong enough to have that level of self discipline, and autistically stuck in my food habits, but at some point I realized that vegans are essentially broadly speaking correct. Anyone who cares enough about defending their carnism has clearly had a nerve touched by this meme. Like, why not just ignore it and go on with your life if you're not going to change your habits anyway? You're certainly not going to convince a vegan to stop being vegan (and why would you want to lmao?). So just. Move on? I know we have a posting culture but on this one you really don't need to.
I have some squabbles with certain vegan arguments, mostly in the form of "you're correct but you're argument for it is bad" rather then "i think your argument is literally wrong", but I'm not going to bother fighting for something I dont even actually defend. My biggest thing is that I dont think consumption habits matter that much so I dont know why people fight for it so hard when there are better ways to fight the meat industry than simple consumer choices. But like, the meme still isnt technically wrong.
literally my main criticism, the arguments sometimes are out of touch and dogmatic. But the vast majority have well thought out and consistent arguments, i think. I have rethought my stance on the subject many times due to this place, and i thank hexbear for that.
stop comparing animal husbandry to the atlantic slave trade though, thats just racist. I don't have another example off the top of my head but please do not use the slave trade one.
The reason you don't have any other examples that would be acceptable to you is because nothing would be. You want vegans to sit down and shut up.
Spoon is to soup as front-end loader is to aggregate. The relationship is the same; thing A picks up thing B. Nothing else about them is remotely similar however. The scale, what is picked up, how the device is used, they're different in almost every way, however you can understand that what they do is the same. Am I comparing soup to aggregate? No of course I'm not.
You have to be operating in very bad faith to suggest that many of our most important members here on our communist website are implying "actually slavery wasn't that bad after all."
Edit: Since post is now locked
Minorities who are being dehumanized and treated like animals.
Is that because they're less than human fundamentally, or because they're oppressed? (It's the latter in case someone tries to do some logical backflips to interpret this as me saying minorities are less than human)
uh no i think veganism is actually a good thing in every way. economically more manageable (if you have access to the foodstuffs required), can imitate the taste to a T (My favorite is a vegan brownie recipe that uses beans AND SOMEHOW TASTES THE SAME AS REGULAR BROWNIES WTF), is more healthy to eat at least a majority diet of non meat and dairy foodstuffs (although some arguments can be made for a small amount of meat allowed being healthy if you have a mostly vegan diet), and allows for a good alternative for the inevitable transition out of the meat industry.
lotta words that don't actually make a point. You critique liberals for calling everything a genocide, and using the double genocide theory to diminish the holocaust. Yet you are completely fine with making the exact same type of argument to diminish The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. I'm listening just fine until you drop something as juvenile as that. Maybe just don't compare it to human attrocities, maybe just justify how bad the meat industry is on its own without doing a 'double slavery theory'.
I really like veganism, just literally this one point i will refuse to bow on. Completely disappointed in whoever makes this silly argument. You have literally an entire world full of arguments to use and yet you are using probably the worst one ever.
It was literally a nitpick, I didn't expect there to be more than one to believe it or actively use it in a discussion. Its only use is some shock value, nothing more.
Its very bad faith to make my critique out to be some disloyalty to hexbear.
And Im not the one comparing animal husbandry to the imperialism and enslavement of a continent over the course of centuries, resulting in the largest injustice in the history of humanity. I get that the animals shouldn't be slaughtered, but that is its own evil, you don't need to make such a silly argument. That is literally it. Not a critique of veganism, but of specific bad arguments that can be done better.
This is what you sound like.
The problem with the double genocide theory is that there was only one genocide. If I related the dynamic of parents giving children bedtimes to genocide you might have a point, because the relationship is not comparable. If you compare the dynamics of a genocide to those of a non-genocide that's genocide denial because there's literally no comparison. We aren't "comparing" them, we aren't "equating" them, we're looking at two relationships. You've gotta be trying to not understand if you can't understand that.
The problem is that when veganism comes up you turn your brains off and say some unhinged nihilistic shit that you
Yeah, the only reason we keep asking for people to stop directly equating minority oppression with animal abuse is because we want vegans to shut up. Exactly. Of course.
One big reason is to decouple your material interests from those of the meat industry. Someone is much less likely to oppose its cruelties if they're benefiting from them by getting cheap and plentiful meat.