I've been speaking with other more informed communists and they've told me that none actually exist. Is this true?
China, Laos, and Vietnam: now notoriously capitalists. Workers work 12+ hours with no protection in horrible factory conditions. Suicide rates are so high that suicide nets are installed. The air is so polluted millions die from lung cancer, especially factory workers w/out basic masks. Corporations dominate
North Korea: Undemocratically ruled by the Kim dynasty. Jong un indulges lavishly at the expense of his citizens, ordering millions in fine wine and trips from Denis Rodman. They might be the most socialist though, as Juche seems to otherwise be democratic.
Cuba: Sanctions have taken a massive toll, but even taking that into account the country still has its own problems. They have massive food shortages and inventory probs and aren't self sufficient after 60+ years. Why couldn't they've use machinery imported from the Soviet Union to develop their agriculture and fishery? The Soviets supported them heavily. They seem to be incredibly mismanaged or corrupt
Can you provide a source for this? No use in responding if we don't even know if it's real
do not use those links, one has no citations and the other is from an organization funded by the National Endowment for Democracy
The content of North Korean doctrine seems particularly discomforting to people here, lol. Not sure why this is the country people feel the need to stand up for
https://web.archive.org/web/20141022133221/http://www2.law.columbia.edu/course_00S_L9436_001/North%20Korea%20materials/10%20principles%20of%20juche.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20170906180510/http://www.internationallawbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Ten-Great-Principles-of-the-Establishment-of-the-Unitary-ideology.pdf
DID YOU JUST POST THE CIA SOURCES A SECOND FUCKING TIME
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lol that second link is the US state department, you're a rube.
they literally linked an org funded by the National Endowment for Democracy
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"A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA" - then NED president Allen Weinstein
NED's President Carl Gershman said that the NED was created because "It would be terrible for democratic groups around the world to be seen as subsidized by the CIA."
It's literally a group that does CIA stuff, without using the CIA name.
You claim that the NED is CIA, but have you considered that the link above is not literally cia.gov?
You just doubled down on using Holocaust denial logic. I wonder why.
But let me be more specific. You believe "The government did something bad once, therefore anything I can tie to the government was also done by the government." Nazis also hate the fact the US entered World War II.
It's more similar to not believing Goebbels radio broadcasts about the USSR. We don't distrust NED, the CIA, or the State Department just because they did something bad once, but because it is both a consistent pattern of spreading misinformation and because it is their stated purpose to rile up dissident groups in US opposed countries.
Okay, then link to the 10 principles yourself.
Nazis use the same logic as you to say Hitler never ordered the Holocaust. Why are you using Nazi logic?
Lol I'm not the one that gives a ahit about it, or brought it up. Go back to
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Are you capable of posting hog?
Are you a leftist? And if you are, why do you feel the need to defend dictatorships?
Are you a poster? And if you are, why do you feel the need to hide your hog?
So you concede to the fact you are using the same logic as Nazis in the same way is Nazis, and your only response is "I don't care"?
So you concede to the fact that you are a
-brained turbolib with no hog to post and your only response is "You're a Nazi"?
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HOG OUT OR LOG OUT YOU SEALIONING FUCKHEAD
So you concede to the fact you are using the same logic as Nazis in the same way is Nazis, and your only response is "I don't care"?
hilarious routine you've got
So, I want to engage in as good of faith possible, here.
It's not about whether it's discomforting, it's about whether or not what you're saying is even true. I have zero reason to believe what you posted has any basis in fact. You initially copy/pasted it with no citation.
Now, the links you're giving are decidedly not Korean. The DPRK puts out works of theory and the like, fairly readily. All I'm asking for is a primary source for this.
But let's assume it's 100% true, for a minute.
Even if it is, and Korean socialism does look the way that these 10 points describe, why might that be? What would drive such an insular, personality-cult driven, set of doctrine?
Could it, perchance, be the fact that the United States set about occupying half of the Korean Peninsula? Reinstalling many of the Japanese colonial administrators the Korean people had just spent decades trying to kick out?
Might it have something to do with the fact that the US bombed the entire peninsula so heavily, that US pilots complained that they were no more targets, and that Koreans literally began living in caves and a result?
If you actually care about Koreans, and are unsettled by the centralization of power in the DPRK, then you ought to recognize that it's US imperial policy that has irrevocably shaped the destiny of the Korean peninsula.
If there's any reason to "Stand up" for the DPRK, it's for the exact reasons you've laid out. If a society is too heal, and overcome the sort of backward despotism you've presented, then the answer is surely to not isolate it more. To not continue to fuel the siege mentality that drives the state ideology. But rather, to work for peace and unification, so that the whole of Korea might, once again, be able to shape its own destiny.
So I read through his links. There isn't a citation to any of these interviews (a necessity for actual academic journalism) to make sure things aren't being taken out of context. The first document even says that "North Korean experts disagree with these things because they view North Korea through the lens of their propaganda." And even then there are only three uncited interviews, one which is obviously an absolutely outrageous lie that breaking the frame of a photo of Kim Jon Il while polishing it is grounds for the execution of an entire family.
For context, the atrocities of the Pinochet regime are backed up by literally hundreds of recorded, cited interviews, some even by guards who participated in the violence admitting their culpability years later (though usually with the excuse that they weren't the ones committing the mass rape, etc.).
This is nothing. This is unsubstantial.
"North Korea has shitty policies because it has been isolated from the rest of the world," is a statement that I agree wholeheartedly with, and yes it should be opened to things like international trade. The same holds true for Cuba, etc.
finally a half good opinion
I am surprised you are allowed to believe North Korea is a shitty country with shitty policies
no one controls my beliefs, and who cited the CIA for theirs again?
Are you going to disagree with the content, or are you going to continue using your Nazi logic of attacking the (alleged) source and it's purported jewishness, rather than addressing its content
"Citations needed."
"Ummm akshually that's something a NAZI would do."
"Children in North Korea eat rats and then the rats eat the children. You must engage with whatever I claim or you're a red facist.
"Disagreeing with me and actually questioning the viability of your sources makes you a nazi, I am very smart."
Who let this child into the adult section? I gotta talk to their parents.
If you don't believe in something because it's been created an arm of the US government for propaganda purposes, that's just like what the Nazis do.
Seriously what is this shit, of course something can be not credible because of the source, would you believe something you read on InfoNews
But unless you have the bigotry of low expectations, you should be expecting more out of the country
What exactly do you want out of a society that was burnt to the ground and survived an attempted genocide? The U.S. dropped more ordinance on NK than they used in the entirety of WW2 and destruction of Japanese cities was a fraction of what the Korean people suffered. The U.S. then helped prop up an authoritarian police state in the South for decades, I'd likely be skeptical of what western democracy entailed after watching entire towns burned to a crisp with napalm. Do you also expect the Gazan population to be a liberal democracy?
Do you use this logic to excuse the third Reich after Germany got decimated
A country involuntarily split and then decimated by a foreign power because they were likely to adopt a communist government is definitely the same as the Nazis, wow you're very smart.
Explain further, your quips aren't politics.
https://www.ned.org/2018-democracy-award/2018-democracy-award-honoree-citizens-alliance-for-north-korean-human-rights-nkhr/
you realize that second link is from an article funded by the fucking NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY
you literally referenced the CIA front for false flag operations and fake organizations
Im fucking giddy are you this stupid on accident or born with a badge?
THE FUCKING NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY
eheheheheheheheeeeeeeeeee oh my god this is so fuckin easy
You remind me of the Nazi who skims articles looking for a Jewish sounding name so they can dismiss it outright. Do you have any contention with the content of the article, or is ad hominem really the best thing you can come up with?
Rightful criticism of a known CIA front org is the same thing as Nazi persecution of Jewish people is one hell of a take
Seriously, get a fuckin grip
Both you and the Nazi will point to any name they can associate with the source of a document, and use it to claim it should not be taken seriously. The only difference is that they call it removed globalism, and you call it bourgeois westerners.
Are you denying the existence of the 10 principles? If you are not, are you complaining about the translation?
Yeah that’s kinda the fundamental crux of the inherent difference between those groups you dumb fuck lmao, do you even read what you're typing
"Checking sources is Nazism actually" lmao you clueless child, get a grip and stay in school
Do you believe the 10 principles are real, fash?
Cite them, correctly
Yes, I am.
Also yes.
So I tried to find a different translation. I spent about 10 minutes on google looking for a different translation or at the very least more context about these alleged "10 principles". It seems like there is only one translation in existence, which I find to be very odd. The text as you've presented it is not long nor particularly difficult, so it shouldn't be difficult to translate. I would assume, then, that more than one person would have produced a translation and posted it to the internet, at least if the original korean text were widely available. And if these "10 principles" were official dprk policy, surely the korean text would be easily found.
So why can I only find one translation? Maybe you can help me out here. Can you find another translation for me please? I'll also accept the original text in korean if that's easier.
Hey @anarchost@lemm.ee, let's keep the conversation public, buddy. I've copied your dm to me below:
Just give me the original text in korean or a different translation of them. Please?
Two more dm's from this creep:
I'm so honored to have been among the group of people who got asked that shitty gotcha about Hitler.
Anyway, don't bother talking to this idiot! They're not worth the effort.
If your source is funded by the CIA i don't care
and you're a braindead bitch if you think you can just compare everyone to nazis without sounding like a toddler
I know you don't care. You are not a leftist, after all, which is very obvious when comparing the way you dismiss sources with identical reasoning as Nazis, and refuse to participate in the conversation.
Your belief in Horseshoe theory is only something a stupid ass liberal could. You aren't anything but a brainless libshit. Get yourself a single original thought and not one funded by the CIA, then I'll deign to give two shits about anything you say.
Horseshoe theory would imply you are a leftist.
You aren't.
I would love it if you adopted left-wing beliefs, rather than campism, and I would love it if you stopped denying the anti-LGBT agendas of the countries you have been taught to support. I hope you break out of the cult, though!
"youre a right winger because i said so" Okay buddy, you're such a good kid, now go play with your friends.
Oh baby you've been only proporting State department bull and the literal CIA, you seem to be fully incapable of research!
I hope you break out of your programming, liberal! I'm right here for when you apologize for your US party line opinions.