• iie [they/them, he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    take what you give

    who broadcast a meme to all of lemmy arguing that modern MLs are treacherous murderers who must be defeated in real life?

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      hexagon
      M
      ·
      1 year ago

      Not quite what the meme said, and also, it's a meme. For people frequently chanting about death to various things, y'all are surprisingly literal.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        and also, it's a meme.

        You can't use this cop-out like it's a joke whenever it's rhetorically convenient for you, especially when you said in the comments that you completely meant it.

        [Yes, I was baited again despite earlier doing the healthy thing of disengaging, that much is not on you]

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Then what the fuck do you say "it's a meme" for? What useful information does that convey? Because clearly you're serious about it and have been told that that response comes off as you saying "it's just a joke bro"

            • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              hexagon
              M
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Look mate, "it's a meme" means it's not going to be particularly nuanced in its criticism. It's meant to ellicit cheap laughs through simplifying some parts. Y'all have a brain, you can certainly see which parts are exagerrated for these purposes. Your comrades were certainly capable of starting nuanced discussions about Catalonia based on this understanding.

              Honestly, I think you are all playing dumb in order to get some gotchas.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                I have no interest in gotchas, what I am seeking is a clear and consistent position. Obviously others who know more about the Spanish Civil War know that it's depiction of Stalin as killing anarchists rather than merely supplying them with 75% of their tanks and no more is a wild misrepresentation, and you still have yet to clarify who the "intellectuals" in Mao's case even refer to.

                My further point is that this bizarre blanket characterization of MLs as butchers, including of people that they did nothing but help, is gross historical revisionism pandering to the preconceptions of people who frankly have next to zero historical understanding when it comes to the groups it refers to. It is in fact poor conduct to stand by such a message whether it is "just a meme" or communicated by any other medium, just as I am very careful to limit my accusations of, say, Nestor Makhno only to what the most sympathetic of biographers admit of him (since I personally do not know about the proof of other claims).

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  hexagon
                  M
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  I don't particularly have to play by your personal rules. For me the original meme is exagerrating historic events (I already explained why) in order to make a simple point "Don't believe in left unity and be wary of tankies". This is the part I agree with. And before you ask, I don't have to justify myself to anyone, especially when they're typical condescending MLs.

                  I left the comments open so y'all can counter all the claims in the meme in as much depth you want. I literally gave you full platform access. Y'all prefer to use it to shitpost instead 🤷

                  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    You are accusing someone of killing people that he did nothing but help, but simply helped inadequately.

                    You have no idea who the "intellectuals" even are, do you?

                    If you're a leftist, don't you think promoting red scare myths is probably bad for understanding history.

                    Edit: I will repeat what I said a while ago that I have never said that you have to do anything. It is a classic deflection to change the question of what you should do to what you can do. You can do anything you want, deny the Holocaust to own the tankies, I can't stop you, but that doesn't mean you should.

                    Complete aside, I would never tar anarchists like you tar MLs. There are many anarchists, like Sholem Schwartzbard, who I think were admirable in action and character, and MLs learning from anarchists as Mao did was a good thing.

      • iie [they/them, he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        [Picture of people being massacred in a pool of their own blood] — "modern online MLs will do this to you in the future if you believe their lies, do not trust them!"

        it's all in good fun though, right tankies I would totally organize with in real life?

      • Clever_Clover [she/her]
        ·
        1 year ago

        For people frequently chanting about death to various things, y'all are surprisingly literal.

        He thinks the death to america posts aren't literal