• zifnab25 [he/him, any]
    ·
    10 months ago

    A skeptical person will google "when was slavery abolished in Cuba"

    Good! The straight up lead-in line from Google is

    Cuba stopped officially participating in the slave trade in 1867 but the institution of slavery was not abolished on the island until 1886. The demand for cheap labor never abated of course, and plantation owners sought other ways of obtaining workers.

    At which point, the Libs are back to explaining why the conditions on Cuban sugar plantations after 1867 didn't count as slavery.

    Directly under that link...

    They followed the lead of the British and the French by switching to importing contract laborers (indentured servants), called colonos. Free people, either voluntarily or through coercion, signed a work contract that stipulated the term of service and the pay they would receive. In theory, the colonos could leave the employ of their owners at the end of the term of service, but in practice the conditions for the colonos were not much different than those endured by the slave population. The majority of the colonos came from China (Chinese Coolies) but they also imported people from the Canary Islands, Mexico, and Africa. This collection contains official letters, death certificates, birth certificates, legal cases, work contracts, an autopsy report, and inventories relating to the institution of slavery, slaves, and indentured servants in Cuba. Many of the documents refer to the Chinese people brought to Cuba as indentured servants or contract laborers.

    At which point you ask how

    the conditions for the colonos were not much different than those endured by the slave population

    means Castro's overthrow of the plantation system in '59 didn't amount to a liberation of millions of Cuban plantation slaves.

    They won't read whatever else you have to say on the matter

    Again, if you want to line up folks who will "lalala I can't hear you" through a conversation about the history of Cuban labor practices, then you're right. But they were adversarial to begin with.

    For folks genuinely curious in the history of Cuba, even this shallow dive operates in your favor.

    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
      ·
      10 months ago

      The straight up lead-in line from Google is

      slavery was not abolished on the island until 1886.

      You really don't see how this presents a problem?

      • RedQuestionAsker2 [he/him, she/her]
        ·
        10 months ago

        Gotta agree with you here.

        Communist propaganda and is so strong because it's true. To say that Castro freed the slaves stretches the definition of slave beyond the point of usefulness.

        We often liken modern day proletarians to peasants for rhetorical reasons, but we recognize that they are distinctly different things despite the fact that many of their class dynamics are similar. The people of Cuba were facing slave like conditions, and we, as Marxists, acknowledge that there's not a huge gap between slavery and wage labor (unlike liberals). But the fact remains, they were not slaves.

        You can still say Castro liberated his people and greatly increased their quality of living, which is why he is so adored. These things are inarguably true.

        In fact, by saying the cuban people were facing slave-like conditions, I think you have a better case in convincing people that modern wage labor and especially the conditions of migrant workers are unjust even though they exist outside the framework of slavery.

      • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
        ·
        10 months ago

        slavery was not abolished on the island

        Seems that by truncating the comment further, I can get it to once again agree with my point of view.

      • iie [they/them, he/him]
        ·
        10 months ago

        What about saying serfs instead of slaves? It’s a term people are more willing to loosely define, but still makes a powerful statement I think

        • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
          ·
          10 months ago

          I think that's less arguable, but something like "Castro liberated his people and greatly increased their quality of living" is still concise but avoids any semantic distractions altogether.