• riseuppikmin [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    11 个月前

    Actions are more important than words. The U.S. is going out of its way to expedite the artillery needed to continue Israel's indiscriminate bombing of civillians in its ongoing genocidal campaign against Palestinians.

    Please I am begging you do not take these organizations at face value- read what the poster above you sent and recognize the distance between the statement "You need to comply with international law more closely" and the action: here is a way for us to get you bombs for you to use more quickly.

    If on one hand part of the state apparatus is signaling for "restraint" but the state is accelerating its ability to provide weapons that its calling for restraint in use of the actual stance is clear: what you're doing is fine by the state.

    • ex10n@lemm.ee
      ·
      11 个月前

      It's alright, we can agree to disagree. Biden has criticized the Netanyahu government for their treatment of Palestinians. More should be done to ensure their safety, hence the conditial provisions of arms, but the United States policy stance has clear ambitions for a 2 state solution. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu government are okay with this, however it remains the United States ambition. I truly hope we can see this conflict resolved in my lifetime.

        • ex10n@lemm.ee
          ·
          11 个月前

          As far as I'm aware, the US has not fired any weapons on Gaza soil. There's been some defensive strikes to the north in Lebanon, but that's it. Seems like a stretch to call the United States complicit when it's goals do not align with the Netantahu government.

            • ex10n@lemm.ee
              ·
              11 个月前

              Vetoing a ceasefire in an active war does not change states policy and actions, but you can spin this however you'd like and we can agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with disagreement, it just spurs the need for thoughtful discourse.

              • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                ·
                11 个月前

                The US could have ended it 2 months ago, but instead it sends weapons and stops any international attempt at stopping it. It is complicit and all the resistance groups across the Middle East agree. US interests in the Middle East and military are legitimate targets. We can agree to disagree, but the US government will be held accountable for its war crimes.

                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  11 个月前

                  As any nation/organization should be. The US is not exempt from international law, but fortunately has a remarkably solid argument in defense of its actions here.

                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                      ·
                      11 个月前

                      It would be naive to think the strength of a nation in international relations is not a waxing/waning manor. It's of upmost importance to maintain policy that echos the opinions of a collective humanity.

                        • ex10n@lemm.ee
                          ·
                          11 个月前

                          Not true, the US and Israel act independently. Their democratic elections alter policy over time as new elected officials foster youthful debate and thus change officials policy. It's not a static system, but instead a dynamically evolving one.

                          • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                            ·
                            11 个月前

                            Yet, the US is in complete lockstep defending Israel, regardless of which party voted in and regardless of which International law Israel is violating.

                            Honest question, do you know that you are lying? The connection between US financial, military and political support and Israeli crimes against Palestinians is clear to the whole world.

                            • ex10n@lemm.ee
                              ·
                              11 个月前

                              The US supports a 2 state solution and provisions for humanitarian aid due to the atrocities committed by both Hamas and the IDF. The US favors peace and stability.

                                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                  ·
                                  11 个月前

                                  While the US has its stated policy, it cannot interfere with sovereign authority without unilateral justification. A 2 state solution needs agreement from Palestinians and Israelis alike. I truly hope this can come to fruition to end the needless loss of life.

                                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                      ·
                                      11 个月前

                                      The Donetsk Republic is not a sovereign nation and has never been recognized to be.

                                            • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                              ·
                                              11 个月前

                                              It's possible an separate representing body could be a part of a Ukrainian republic. That's an interesting thought and I'd love to discuss it further!

                                              • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                ·
                                                11 个月前

                                                The only discussion the West understands is at the end of a gun barrel. Otherwise nothing but hypocrisy and double standards.

                                                I mean imagine if I said "It’s possible an separate representing body could be a part of the Russian Federation. That’s an interesting thought and I’d love to discuss it further!" about Ukraine.

                                                  • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                    ·
                                                    edit-2
                                                    11 个月前

                                                    Yes. My country is building a major renewable project there

                                                    "Acwa Power to build 1GW wind energy plant in Kazakhstan" https://www.agbi.com/articles/acwa-power-to-build-1gw-wind-energy-plant-in-kazakhstan/

                                                    "Saudi Arabia collaborates with Kazakhstan to improve energy partnership" https://www.arabnews.com/node/2320786/business-economy

                                                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                      ·
                                                      11 个月前

                                                      Excellent, renewable energy is the way of the future. Now give back the land and reaffirm Kazakh soverignty.

                                                        • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                          ·
                                                          11 个月前

                                                          I'll admit, you stumped me. Point me towards where I can read about Saudi involvement in Kazakhstan.

                                                                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                                  ·
                                                                  11 个月前

                                                                  The US has been making substantial steps towards reducing emissions. The amount of money funding fusion research right now is incredible! My brother currently works for a private fusion research company and getting to tour was a thrill in itself!

                                                                  • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                                    ·
                                                                    11 个月前

                                                                    That’s not even true

                                                                    Environmentalists slam Biden admin's oil and gas auctions during COP28 https://www.axios.com/2023/11/29/biden-administration-oil-gas-lease-auctions-cop28

                                                                    The US is biggest emitter and producer and will only be more so under Biden’s plan

                                                                    More planned future emissions too

                                                                    Show

                                                                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                                      ·
                                                                      11 个月前

                                                                      Biden's build back better plan is working towards meeting COP climate goals. Not sure how you can argue otherwise, but please discuss to enlighten me!

                                                                      • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                                        ·
                                                                        11 个月前

                                                                        I’m betting you my second house that in 10 years there will still be no high speed rail. Even the amount set aside for local manufacturing is paltry next to what the US sends to Israel to bomb Palestinians.

                                                                        Your country exists to serve Israel not you.

                                                                        • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                                          ·
                                                                          11 个月前

                                                                          I've personally seen the infrastructure build out for HSR, it's progressing remarkably fast. Almost all of the at grade crossings are nearing completion for the San Joaquin valley corridor! Exciting news!

                                                                          • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                                            ·
                                                                            11 个月前

                                                                            Who are you lying to? This is just sad. Egypt will have a HSR before you do, but at least people in the US can console themselves that their government is sending billions to “defend freedom and democracy”.

                                                                            • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                                              ·
                                                                              11 个月前

                                                                              That's fine, the rate of development is rapid given the geographic, political, and private property questions involved. It's a unique process, but one that I fully support and am happy to see quickly roll out!

                                                                                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                                                  ·
                                                                                  11 个月前

                                                                                  Do you understand what it takes to make an Engineering project tick? Also theses plenty of more red tape around the US rollout of HSR than the alternatives you presented.

                                                                                  • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                                                    ·
                                                                                    11 个月前

                                                                                    Yes, central planning and budgeting.

                                                                                    People in the US assume the rest of the world is a lawless hell hole when many countries including China have stronger protections against eminent domain.

                                                                                    The real reason you haven’t gotten HSR isn’t technical, is political. Israel has first-dips on the US budget. Reminds me of something someone I knew used to say: “the American will sell his kids before cutting aid to Israel”.

                                                                                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                                                      ·
                                                                                      11 个月前

                                                                                      I mean I brought up the political aspect. The auto manufacturers and oil lobby have their own input in democratic discourse.

                                  • SexMachineStalin [comrade/them]
                                    ·
                                    11 个月前

                                    So why did Joe Bellend and Obomba overthrow a democratically elected Yakunovich 10 years ago? Or joined up with france-cool in Lybia? Or propped up ISIS over a decade ago and try to overthrow Assad, creating a refugee crisis? Or attempt a failed coup in Xinjiang? Or hell, even in December of 2019 overthrow MAS in Bolivia? Just a few recent examples.

                                    Sure as shit sounds like anything except "interfering with sovereign authority without unilateral justification".

            • ex10n@lemm.ee
              ·
              11 个月前

              Sounds like we can agree to disagree, there's nothing wrong with that when democracy reigns!

                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  11 个月前

                  I haven't brought race into this discourse and plan to keep it that way. This is discussing country policy decisions.

                  • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                    ·
                    11 个月前

                    but racism explains why you are defending a genocide against the Palestinians. You would be singing a completely different tune if the people being murdered were relatively civilized relatively european.

                    where does your double standards come from, unless you don't see the Palestinians as equally humans?

                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                      ·
                      11 个月前

                      I disagree, the promotion of a 2 state solution in Israel parallels the states policy for the protection of Ukrainian sovereignty.

                        • ex10n@lemm.ee
                          ·
                          11 个月前

                          No, I disagree with any form of forced annexation. Hench the support of a 2 state solution in Israel and the protection of Ukrainian sovereignty.

                          • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                            ·
                            11 个月前

                            but the 2-state solution itself is annexation. If you are okay with it in Palestine then you should be okay with it in Ukraine. Otherwise you are being a hypocrite either due to historical ignorance or racism.

                            • ex10n@lemm.ee
                              ·
                              11 个月前

                              Please explain to me how a 2 state solution is in affect, annexation?

                              • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                ·
                                11 个月前

                                They say a picture is worth a thousand words. All the dots on this map are ethnically cleansed Palestinian towns and villages. If this happening to the Palestinians is okay with you, being forced from their homes with no right to return, then it happening to the Ukrainians should also be okay with you.

                                Show

                                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                  ·
                                  11 个月前

                                  The US recognizes these attrocities and thus favors a 2 state solution to end this war and preexisting conflict.

                                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                      ·
                                      11 个月前

                                      Two wrongs do not make a right. The US favors a 2 state solution.

                                        • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                          ·
                                          11 个月前

                                          Fortunately the defense of sovereign Ukrainian territory is not a wrong. The UN backs this claim directly in its charter.

                                              • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                ·
                                                11 个月前

                                                Neither is racism and imperialism. Isn't it ironic that the countries that don't recognize Palestine are the same countries that consider Hamas terrorists. Almost like they are racist and imperialist.

                                                Show

                                                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                  ·
                                                  11 个月前

                                                  Hamas has committed terrorist acts. It'd be naive to think they don't support terrorism. Frankly it was the spark that started the most recent developments with the conflict.

                                                  • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                    ·
                                                    11 个月前

                                                    Again, more ignorance. Not only being racist to 87% of the world population who don't see Hamas as terrorists. But also completely disregarding and ignoring the context that led Hamas to respond on October 7th. Do you even know why it was called Operation Al-Aqsa Flood?

                                                    This happened on October 4th! Worshippers were attacked in Al-Aqsa Mosque https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot

                                                    Typical racists, always ignoring that they attacked first, and only focusing on the response.

                                                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                      ·
                                                      11 个月前

                                                      It's clear the intentions were to strike terror in an effort to bring attention to the apartheid. This does not detract from the fact that it was still terrorism.

                                                        • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                          ·
                                                          11 个月前

                                                          US policy towards the apartheid in South Africa changed over the years. This highlights the importance of being open minded!

                                                          • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                            ·
                                                            11 个月前

                                                            The US supported apartheid in South Africa until the bitter end, even when the rest of the world stood in opposition to it. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist until 2008.

                                                            Your government gets a lot wrong. So I can safely ignore it.

                                                            • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                              ·
                                                              edit-2
                                                              11 个月前

                                                              The beauty of a democratic government is the nature of shifts in policy. It may not be able to act as swiftly as an authoritarian regime, but it does allow all sides to get their time to share input. I've never claimed the US to be the arbitor of morality, they've made their fair share of mistakes. Fortunately the democratic process allows us to Garner a better understanding as a whole, and thus work towards the solutions that being forth the most common good. Very utilitarian in nature.

                                                              • الأرض ستبقى عربية@lemmygrad.ml
                                                                ·
                                                                11 个月前

                                                                Enjoy your democracy while I enjoy my high speed rail. At least until Israel orders you to bomb us.

                                                                After traveling to the US once and actually having the Acela train I was on die during the trip, is plenty of argument against whatever political system you have

                                                                Watch Saudi's HSR and weep https://youtu.be/uXtaWSnmvTg

                                                                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                                                  ·
                                                                  11 个月前

                                                                  High Speed Rail is in a Renaissance phase here in the US, it's incredibly exciting! I'm not sure how this fits the current discourse here though.

      • What_Religion_R_They [none/use name]
        ·
        11 个月前

        This really opened my mind, thank you. It's wild what westerners will want to believe. I'm assuming that lemmy isn't big enough for bots yet.

      • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
        ·
        11 个月前

        You still haven't been able to back up your claim that the USA is putting the breaks on it's aid of Isreal because of the genocide. All you've done is point to the US going "we'd like it if you slowed down on the genocide, but we'll 100 support you if you don't" and tried to equivocate that as being the same, when it really isn't.

        • ex10n@lemm.ee
          ·
          11 个月前

          I said pumping the breaks. There's still legitimate concern for the removal of Hamas as the acting government of Gaza. Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu backed Israeli government want a 2 state solution, however this remains the US states policy. Whoever can broker a deal that affirms a 2 state solution here will hopefully produce meaningful change towards this conflict.

          • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
            ·
            11 个月前

            I said pumping the breaks

            Doesn't change anything about my point.

            There's still legitimate concern for the removal of Hamas as the acting government of Gaza

            Incorrect. And you don't see the USA sending endless, unconditional, military aid to Palestine so they can remove the Israeli government.

            Neither Hamas, nor the Netantahu backed Israeli government want a 2 state solution

            Hamas explicitly calls for a 2 state solution you lying ghoul.

            this remains the US states policy

            Not true, not until the US recognises the state of Palestine.

            Whoever can broker a deal that affirms a 2 state solution here will hopefully produce meaningful change towards this conflict.

            Going to be pretty hard to do while Isreal and the USA are committed to genocide.

            • ex10n@lemm.ee
              ·
              11 个月前

              US aid is conditional to congressional support. Currently there's debate on the issue at hand. Doesn't remove the impact humanitarian aid has provided in the region. The 2 state solution has always been the desired solution here in the states. That position has been unwavering.

              • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
                ·
                11 个月前

                So you lied and you admit it.

                You've already been told that the USA doesn't hold the two state solution and why.

                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  11 个月前

                  No, but if you'd like to make that conclusion, it's well within your right to do so. This is why I support our democratic process and the debate it garnishes!

                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  11 个月前

                  The United States official policy is for a 2 state solution, I'm not sure how you can see it any other way. Feel free to present your arguments though!

                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                      ·
                      11 个月前

                      I'm glad I could present you with thoughtful alternatives to your beliefs. It's important for civil discourse. This has been a largely productive and positive discussion, thank you for your input and civility!

                        • ex10n@lemm.ee
                          ·
                          11 个月前

                          Those are some subpar drawing skills if I've ever seen any. You might need some lessons. The whole meme format doesn't really make sense to me, however I'll admit it's possible autism may be at play.

                            • ex10n@lemm.ee
                              ·
                              11 个月前

                              Now I'm just confused, but that's okay! This has been a wonderful discussion regarding the attrocities committed by Russian aggression in Ukraine. I'm glad I could spark some thoughtful debate here in lemmygrad! It's been lacking non affirming voices as far as I can tell.

      • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        11 个月前

        Did anyone ever tell you the saying "actions speak louder than words" as a kid? Now apply that to state actors. No matter what words their US uses, no matter their criticism, their actions are very clear.

        • ex10n@lemm.ee
          ·
          11 个月前

          Yes absolutely. That's why it's imperative to understand when Putin said we're not going to invade Ukraine, while staging troops along the Ukraine border, then choosing to in invade the foreign country after the Olympics concluded. Understanding here highlights the wrongful actions Russia knowingly committed, at the direction of Putin, against a sovereign nation. The international community has decided to push back against these attrocities and the ICC will adjudicate the war crimes committed in the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

          • voight [he/him, any]
            ·
            11 个月前

            John McCain and Lindsay Graham told neo nazis to go cement the damage done by the 2014 coup and they went and electrocuted babushkas through the kidneys. They build grandmas different in Donetsk so she kept on fighting. Online Ukraine supporters don't have it in them. I'm surprised you haven't moved back to trashing 🇻🇪

            https://sputnikglobe.com/20230721/the-truth-about-ukrainian-war-crimes-against-donbass-civilians-1112031958.html

            https://thegrayzone.com/2023/12/11/ukrainian-maidan-massacre-false-flag/

            https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/07/17/the-lord-of-the-underworld-meet-the-paratrooper-from-north-carolina-who-orchestrated-the-war-in-ukraine/

            https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/02/03/how-a-network-of-nazi-propagandists-helped-lay-the-groundwork-for-the-war-in-ukraine/

            https://mronline.org/2022/06/13/how-monsters-who-beat-jews-to-death-in-1944-became-americas-favorite-freedom-fighters-in-1945/

            • ex10n@lemm.ee
              ·
              11 个月前

              Care to provide corroborating evidence to back these articles? They read like pure propaganda and fail to cite claims.

              • voight [he/him, any]
                ·
                11 个月前

                I'm sorry, is there something about hyperlinks which confuses you?

                You need to have a little number linking to a footnote, or else it doesn't count lmfao

                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  11 个月前

                  Nothing wrong with hyperlinks, however a footnote section makes for a better format. Many of these hyperlinks don't even relate to the word that was linked. It just makes it look as if something backs the claim being made. They're littered everywhere and the few I clicked, didn't have much relevance. Footnotes make it easier to see where each stems from and allow the reader to understand potential bias easier. Care to link to peer reviewed academic articles on one of the subjects? I'd be glad to dig in, but so far I'm reading propaganda sprinkled with a few true statements to produce a sense of legitimacy. It's misinformation campaign 101.

                  • voight [he/him, any]
                    ·
                    11 个月前

                    Hm, very scintillating, old sport! There's just one problem. You're making unverified claims to me!

                    I will require each hyperlink that you consider misleading, along with the passage where it is found.

                    Because I recall each and every one was related to the passage it was found in.

                    There are no peer reviewed scientific papers about the Maidan, you complete dolt. It's a color revolution, not a pond of tadpoles.

                    Instead what we have are Ukrainian sources you have trusted before admitting what their enemies already told them, far too late.

                    Get to work!

                    • ex10n@lemm.ee
                      ·
                      11 个月前

                      I won't entertain bad faith arguments, but I'd recommend you read up more on the Maidan to gain some historical context. You'll likely make some alterations to your opinion, and shatter bits of your worldview. Also there's plenty of peer reviewed academic papers on the Maidan, e.g. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1zkjxq0.11

                      • voight [he/him, any]
                        ·
                        11 个月前

                        Lol you think a social science paper is the same as a study. You're such a specious thinker. Did you really just search Maidan on Google scholar to try to impress me? I'm going to bend you over.

                        You want to read a book, big boy? Open wide!

                        https://files.catbox.moe/r7ee47.php

                        Your history of Ukraine begins 2022. I have more than one-hundred times the depth of knowledge on this subject you do.

                        • ex10n@lemm.ee
                          ·
                          11 个月前

                          I'm not sure why you think commiting to insults has an impact on your claims, but carry on! I'll continue to support thoughtful discourse and debate!

                          • voight [he/him, any]
                            ·
                            11 个月前

                            You can't seriously be trying to act glib after you ignored the basic point I made about the social sciences due to sheer ignorance. The world is not a laboratory.

                            Articles like the ones I posted often become chapters in books, and are just as suitable as the paper you cited when it comes to examining the recent history of Ukraine.

                            There is no way for you to disguise your intellectual humiliation, flat out refusing to examine the sources I provided, or prove that they are themselves inaccurately sourced. You have nothing but your own confirmation bias to sustain you.

                            Now go do your homework, Bandera boy. I gave you plenty.

                            • ex10n@lemm.ee
                              ·
                              11 个月前

                              Your belief that the articles you shared will become chapters in history is laughable. They'll exist sure, but they'll carry no merit as their bias paints a dark stain on their impact. Through simple logic and reasoning, the bias is easily sniffed out. Please learn to apply some common sense when carrying out debate in public forums. It's a step towards being decent.

                              • voight [he/him, any]
                                ·
                                11 个月前

                                You're all alone with your reddit debate bro shit man, you're not fooling anybody. We all know it's a bluff. This is what you do whenever you see anything you disagree with: label it disinformation. It's the same strategy as narcissistic twitter bluechecks. You're employing an embarrassing, lazy, overused rhetorical strategy that has literally not worked a single time.

                                Show

                                • ex10n@lemm.ee
                                  ·
                                  11 个月前

                                  My understanding is that Lemmy is a platform to allow individuals to discuss topics in an open forum setting. I'm here to be open minded and listen, but debate is a two-way street. In order to promote open discussion, participants in a democratic process need to be willing to discuss their beliefs with others. It's important to participate in this process as it's how I believe humanity can grow stronger. Our struggles as humans are the same, we must understand the differing viewpoints others have come to realize in order to promote a better world.