Inspired by recent discussions, I think Hexbear has a lot of good information about socialism but I wonder if the relentless defense of AES on Hexbear means shooting ourselves in the foot, since many potential leftists have been thoroughly primed to react negatively to AES states?

We’re not getting our messages out when progressive instances have already pre-emptively blocked us and calling us “tankies”.

People are being turned away without even taking the opportunity to read some of the stuff here, because they already have a pre-conceived notion about Hexbear being filled with “crazy tankies who defend totalitarianism”.

I know there have been a lot of propaganda and fabrication being perpetuated about socialist countries, and it feels “right” to defend them against these false accusations, but I wonder if this is doing more harm than good for the present day nascent socialist movement, at least in the Western countries?

We can remain on the current course and feel indignant about the tankie accusations, but will forever remain as a niche “tankie” community.

Or, we can open ourselves up, by toning down the admiration for the socialist states so we are not being treated as hostile by the other instances, and thus opening up the opportunities to have productive interactions with users (and potential leftists) from other instances?

(I do have my own position, you probably know which one it is, but I’m willing to hear from others and reevaluate my own opinions if needed).

EDIT: Thanks to everyone who responded. All points are well taken. Thank you.

  • MolotovHalfEmpty [he/him]
    ·
    10 个月前

    Fuuuuuck no. nowai

    Obviously I have personal and moral reasons not to, but I'll try and stick to the purely practical reasons this would be a terrible decision.

    1. People won't tone it down anyway. Short of enforcing bans that would make Hexbear any other shitlib site, people won't just put away their deeply held and pivotal beliefs in one of the few places they can actually express them openly without being constantly attacked and exhausted.

    2. If they were forced or pressured to they'd like leave and you'd been talking about a massive exodus of the Hexbear population, including most if not all of the most active and informative posters on the site.

    3. Lying (by omission) about your position does not win people over, it weakens it and your credibility. You simply cannot advocate for socialism while not advocating for or at least defending actually existing socialist states. So all you're doing by coddling that opinion and kicking the can down the road is inflating the certainly of Western chauvinists for when you finally have to address it. Or in the case of Hexbear, flooding the site with chauvinism and empowering that belief before trying to challenge it from a weaker position.

    4. Being upfront with people builds trust. Every person who has come around to re-looking at either communist politics or the AES States from talking to me in real life has done so because I didn't hmm-and-hah about it. Simply saying, 'yeah I'm a communist' or 'actually, China is pretty good' in a matter of fact way, as if it's a totally normal and acceptable opinion to have, has always gotten me at least respectful interest and I can elaborate from their without people feeling attacked, scared, or suspicious. In an online and cultural discourse where weaponised propaganda about misinformation and troll farms, paid shills etc is the norm, how do you think most libs would react to being lured in with lying (by omission) and then later feeling like they had the defense of 'totalitarian' states or whatever sprung on them, as they see it?

    5. Personally, short of some mass, catastrophic upheaval socially and economically in many western states like the US and UK (where I live), I think the chances of even moderate transformational changes towards socialism, never mind revolution, are slim to none. I still organise and advocate for my beliefs here, because we help feed people, find them housing, put clothes on their back, provide mental healthcare support, and try to stop asylum seekers being abused by a racist state. It's worthwhile. But realistically as communists in the imperial core, we should be focused on the biggest obstacle to building socialism globally: our imperialism. Weakening our reactionary states stranglehold on the rest of the world through genocide, indiscriminate bombing, terror and assassination is the most important thing we can do to allow socialism to not even flourish, but survive all over the world. And trying to do that without openly supporting the right of AES States not to be obliterated would be peak brainworms